Missing the point?

June 30, 2008

Abstainers

 
I had read on many lying Sites that Barrack Obama does not drink alcohol and  that is not true.. Is he rather an alcolholic too now?http://www.sofakingdrunk.com/2008/05/09/obama-and-clinton-drinking-alcohol-obama-drunk-clinton-drunk/
  
In reality Genuine Born Again, Evangelical, Christians are total abstainers from smoking, drugs, alcohol, cheating, lying, stealing, tax evasions, pornography, or rather all personal vices, Impairments
 

Reality! These days it is too hard to tell the difference between secular persons and even evangelical pastors, Christians they seem to do the same things too. Why are alcoholics always in denial? and why do they often lie,  cheat, steal also now? Because if they do admit the truth they are alcoholics, sinners too  they do have now to repent of the sin of disobeying God’s word about being drunk too.. so they take the ostrich denial approach instead too often. Alcoholism still is a sin of a deliberate, personal choice, and to be set free you have to admit your sin, confess it, renounce it, ask God for forgiveness through Jesus Christ as well.. It is not only wrong for the average person it is also especially wrong for leaders in the government, politicians. It is amazing how one can quickly spot an alcoholic, while they cannot still see their sin, and how quick they are to oppose themselves being exposed now too..

I admit I had lost all respect for the supposedly great preacher Spurgeon who was so ready to preach to others about their sins, but he himself now could not resist  the Temptation of a cigar.  Similar we find out that other preachers could not give up smoking too..

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Look at this reference in regard to AB Simpson, the past founder of the Christian Missionary Alliance denomination now too.  “The Man, the movement, and the mission-A documentary of the C&MA”  Cut directly from their national web site. It was the custom for the ministers of the district to meet together to discuss all things common. This little reunion, in its proper sequence, was held one day at the Manse. And unaccountably strange odor of tobacco smoke began to steal upstairs. Suddenly the study door flew open and a towering figure of fury – all of four feet, one inch in its stocking feet – stood at the threshold. “SMOKING! Out of this house!” said Grannie Simpson, and in a body the ministerial association moved.  https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=15796002&postID=3424830162204895882

The CMA is a pretentious and one of the most demonic churches I have been too made up of lying hypocrites where the professing Christians not only abuse people, poor people included, but they indulge in Alcohol too often too.. “I know that as a minister in the C&MA I am called to abstain from drinking alcoholic beverages, here at Safe Harbor there are just a few of people who voluntary give up drinking. The majority of our church drinks: beer, wine, and of course margaritas. I do not have a problem with this. Some pastors would. I can sum up my position by quoting Derek Webb, “While I do not condone drunkenness, I do condone drinking” http://lukecamara.blogspot.com/2007/05/jesus-and-wine.html

https://thenonconformer.wordpress.com/2008/05/13/christian-missionary-alliance/

http://reversion-clause.com/

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and what other pastoral vices now are now being PERMITTED falsely today,  the handing out of beer, wine, alcoholic beverages, playboy, pornography, acts of cheating, lying, stealing, STEALING THE TITHES, adultery, tax evasions still?

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The Evangelical CMA Christian Canadian ex PM Stephen Harper should also note that the New Conservatives themselves now tend to be just as much alcoholics as the Liberals. Any false preconceived notions that they generally are not is clearly a myth .Even our professing Canadian Christian Evangelical prime Minister Stephen Harper, and others, still should  note that these are basic, ground rules in proper Bible interpretation that must be followed before anyone even attempts to fully study, apply  the Holy Scripture even related to consuming much too many Alcoholic beverages now too? He personally and falsely, undeniably  loves his alcoholic  wine, beer much too much still too? WE ALL DO NEED to have a right attitudes EVEN  all of leaders, pastors, elders too, and they have to lead by a good personal example too.

 Look I am not alone in this view.. too many Canadian persons have noticed that we have much too many alcoholics in the governments, even as elected ones, even as leaders, Brian Mulroney was known for his boozing now too.. Regretfully still there  much too many alcoholics even in the Conservative party now for my liking,  , in this area too they are just as bad as the Liberal too it seems..  and who can forget Ralph Klein’s alcoholic outburts too, A man is certainly known what he is like by the friends he keep and having an brain damaged alcoholic as a friend, as a  drinking buddy is really no virtue, it is a sad recommendation,  a poor reference that you cannot even be now proud off.. The Prime Minister Stephen Harper a professing Christian Missinary Alliance Evangelcial too had said that the ex PM Brian Mulroney was a close friends.. he Harper now really better start to get better friends and appointees than his alcoholic drinking buddies.. and still not one cent of taxpayers’ money should ever be even used  to buy any alcoholic, alcohol  at any governmental function, expense account.. for we all know how bad alcoholism is and how much evil , suffering it brings, all alcoholics should be fired, especially all of the alcoholic the public and civil servants, all alcoholic  elected officials too  and  not rather falsely  rewarded with more alcohol for almost all of them are already known to be liars, cheat’s thieves, abusers, etc..

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There are several basic, ground rules in proper Bible interpretation that must be followed by all persons now  before anyone even attempts to fully study the Holy Scripture. The first rule is pray and ask the Holy spirit to guide you, to teach you.. not rather self, mere men or women.. we all should seek first and not last the Holy Spirit for illumination. The Holy Spirit wants to share the treasures of God’s Word with those who rightfully do esteem Him. The most important principle to remember in studying God’s Word is that it can only be understood with the help of the Holy Spirit.  Those who approach the Bible without the Holy Spirit to teach them, may gain some insight into truths, their lives, but also  will receive no definite, permanent, important life-changing revelation.  Bible Commentaries should be used only very sparingly if at  all. Even the most anointed man or woman, preacher  of God clearly still can be wrong, biased, have a hidden agenda, limited, (or just shallow) in their understanding or interpretation of certain Bible topics, subjects. Do not believe any man or women, rather solely Take God’s word for it.“A scorner seeketh wisdom, and findeth it not: but knowledge is easy unto him that understandeth” (Proverbs 14:6 )We know that alcoholism is a terrible sin  that now damages the person’s brain, affects their ability  to work, to drive a car, and negatively affects their own behavior and affects many others too. The same reality is true of one taking now bad drugs as well. So I was also similarly shocked, surprised to discover the the falsely professing evangelical Christian Stephen Harper our Prime Minister likes to consume wine, alcohol, and he buys it for others as well. Beyond a Biblical doubt the Genuine Born Again Evangelicals are total abstainers, like me, I never drink or touch wine or alcohol, at any time, nor do I give playboy, pornography, wine or wine glasses to anyone. ““Dr. Daniel Akin, President of Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary has written an article in favor of the famous Resolution #5 (Resolution calling for total opposition to alcohol). Alcohol is the number one drug problem among teenagers. (1 Cor. 8:13; 9:19-22; 10:32-33). Because I am an example to others, I will make certain no one ever walks the road of sorrow called alcoholism because they saw me take a drink and assumed, “if it is alright for him it is alright for me.” No, I will choose to set an uncompromising example of abstinence because I love them.  I will seek my joy and filling in the Spirit not in alcohol. I love the Phillips translation of Ephesians 5:18 which reads, “Don’t get your stimulus from wine (for there is always the danger of excessive drinking), but let the Spirit stimulate your souls.” Psalm 4:7-8 adds, “You [O Lord] have put more joy in my heart than they have when their grain and wine abound. In peace I will both lie down and sleep; for you alone, O Lord, make me dwell in safety.”  There is no record that Jesus drank strong drink,  As a pastor or church leader, would I demand abstinence for  leadership? Absolutely! The principle of Proverbs 31:4-5 is appropriately applied here, “It is not for Kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine, or for rulers to take strong drink, lest they drink and forget what has been decreed and pervert the rights of all the afflicted.” “PM Stephen Harper the pretender evangelical as well.. is not the first time he wrongfully  gave alcoholic beverages to others, and what next?

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(1 Cor 11:28 KJV)  But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. 29  For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. 30   For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. 31  For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

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(Prov 3:33 KJV)  The curse of the LORD is in the house of the wicked: but he blesseth the habitation of the just.

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Jesus himself had said that professing to be a Christian is not enough, and it applies now to a Prime Minister as well, one rather can  tell what a person is really like by what he does,  a True Christian is one who evidently is controlled by the Spirit of God and not by  self, sin, a real Christian is one where thus anyone can clearly see by the evidence of the fruit of the Holy Spirit, including even self control.

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Matt 3:8 Bring forth fruit that is consistent with repentance [let your lives prove your change of heart];

Gal 5:23 Gentleness (meekness, humility), self-control (self-restraint, continence). Against such things there is no law [that can bring a charge].

Matt 7:16 You will fully recognize them by their fruits. Do people pick grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles?17 Even so, every healthy (sound) tree bears good fruit [worthy of admiration], but the sickly (decaying, worthless) tree bears bad (worthless) fruit. 18 A good (healthy) tree cannot bear bad (worthless) fruit, nor can a bad (diseased) tree bear excellent fruit [worthy of admiration].  19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and cast into the fire. 20 Therefore, you will fully know them by their fruits. 

 

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1 Tim 3:2 Now a bishop (superintendent, overseer) must give no grounds for accusation {but} must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, circumspect {and} temperate {and} self-controlled; [he must be] sensible {and} well behaved {and} dignified and lead an orderly (disciplined) life; [he must be] hospitable [showing love for and being a friend to the believers, especially strangers or foreigners, and be] a capable {and} qualified teacher,Alcoholics, wine drinkers, smokers, drug users too they all  tend to have evidentially lost their self control..
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I have often rightfully said to many preachers I would rather see them first by example live the life of Christ instead of merely preaching it others.  Preaching the Gospel is not an valid alternative to living it.  I even do know People who profess to be Christians and they are Alcoholics too.. but they are not Christians… They fool themselves only as to who they still really are too.
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By their own fruits Jesus said to us all you can tell what they are really like still.
..(Prov 16:25 KJV)  There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
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(Mat 7:20 KJV)  Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21  Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24  Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25  And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26  And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

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If you took 2 martinis or 2 beers a day you are an alcoholic. Alcoholism is a crime and not a disease, it is a crime, it is just as lethal, bad, and it is really unacceptable as selling or taking bad drugs too. Canada’s  bad drug problem, drunk driving, alcoholism is increasing not just amongst the teens, but also in the work place, in the government now as well even amongst the civil and public servants. Most major home violence, car or truck accidents are still associated with alcohol now too and not speeding. It’s a fact that  drinking alcohol can seriously damage one’s health and cause permanent brain damage as well .Alcohol may lead to liver problems, a variety of cancers as well as forms of osteoporosis and depression, and studies are showing, too, that women are more susceptible to the ill effects of alcohol than are men.

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Not one cent of taxpayer’s money should be ever used in the governments, civil  and public servants, expense accounts  to buy alcohol, wine  or beer.

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> I did not know that smoking is a sin?

Impaired means  when Mental awareness, alertness and function do also come under a dulling, slowing effect. This hinders our mental ability in everyday activity and restricts or cuts off our mental fellowship with the Holy Spirit speaking to our mind from our spirit. A person who has the smoking or drinking habit, in honesty, must label themselves an “addict” too. in bondage to Satan and the flesh and the lust thereof. Alcoholism, Smoking, lying, stealing, slander  is demonic, which is why it is so hard to stop on your own and they all are  not compatible with the Christian experience.  These sinful  problems are next forcing negative consequences on other “innocent” people  Co-workers, family and even  children are victims .  Christians are definitely thus not to be “stumbling blocks” to others.  Matthew 18: 6, 7, “But who so shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depths of the sea. Woe unto the world because of offenses! For it must needs be that offenses come; but woe to that man by whom the offense cometh!”

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Also smoking is “burning incense to other (demon) gods”. II Kings 22:17, II Kings 23:5; II Chronicles 28:25, 34:24, 34:25; Jeremiah 1:16, 7:9, 11:12, 19:4; Chapter 44, 48:35.

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To receive complete freedom from these sinful  bondages, the Believer must see his “habit” or being “hooked” as a spiritually rooted problem and confess it as a deliberate sin of Disobedience to God too. Acknowledging lust, Alcohol, tobacco, cigarettes, drugs, lying, stealing, marijuana  and smoking as sin is prerequisite. Personal Confession of the sin according to (1 John 1:9 KJV)  If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10   If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.and we all must choose to submit to God according to (James 4:7 KJV)  Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8  Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. 9  Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. 10   Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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next , places the Believer on proper ground for the unclean spirits to be cast out of them

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and whether Smoking it is legal or not legal basically is not the issue in the sight of God.. but when you clearly have lost self control,  it also alters your judgment and your ability to perceive reality. on top of that you now are a prisoner to a bad habit of smoking , the very clear source of the bad habit is the devil now as well and not God.. and if you cannot see this it is either cause you do not want to or are in false denial… Half of the world knows that smoking cigarettes even is bad for you, it is a vice, and  it causes cancer, linked to gum disease, destroys the body and you did not realize it was sinful? either you are lying to me, lying yourself others or you are being deliberate ignorant. Smoking is not without potential real negative consequences and yes anyone would be an absolute fool not to factor that truth now as well . One cannot honestly claim to be using alcohol, smoking or marijuana for any purpose other than to falsely intoxicate oneself. to lose self control. One is not getting you closer to God by being intoxicated , but moving you away from Him. You’re doing the weed for YOURSELF, serving the sinful sinful self, the flesh now in reality. You are to die to self, the flesh and all of it’s lust thereof  as a Christian now still too. The ends do not justify now the mans still as well.

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1 Corinthians  10:31 (King James Version)   Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

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1 Corinthians 3:16-17 (King James Version) 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

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Christians are always to remain SOBER too. 1 Thessalonians 5:8 (King James Version) 8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. Sober, obedient and not given to lusts of the flesh.

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1 Peter 1:13-14 (King James Version)  13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:

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Ephesians 5:11-21 (King James Version) 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them  12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. 13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. 14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. 15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, 16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil. 17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is. 18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit 19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms

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Even our ex  PM Stephen Harper needs to get better friends, needs to repent himself too.

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Undeniably whether you are also a leader or not getting drunk is still an unacceptable sin as well. And all true Christians consider this still a sinful act

 

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 Booze may speed shrinking of the brain
Chicago Sun-Times –  First, the experts said drinking low to moderate amounts of alcohol was a good idea, that it might protect against heart disease. Now, a study has found that such drinking has a risk: It might speed the shrinking of the brain that naturally comes with
Study Links Drinking Alcohol To Shrinking Of The Brain dBTechno
Excess Drinking Shrinks the Brain Washington Post
Xinhua – DetNews.com – Telegraph.co.uk – MedPage Today
all 95 news articles »

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Alcohol is a poison that is detrimental to one’s health and all persons who take bad drugs and alcohol suffer undeniably irreversible brain damage, death of brain cells, become more and more mentally  retarded . 
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Poison is a good choice of words, particularly when the substance is in the hands of young people who often think themselves immune from the dangers around them Drinking even one alcoholic beverage while soaking in the sun can increases skin cancer risk by 20 percent while drinking more than four glasses increases this risk by 55 percent, a new study finds . It’s estimated that  roughly 13% of those watching the  watching Super Bowl  will consume alcoholic beverages. Too many deaths are also  linked to energy drinks being mixed with alcohol. This is a dangerous combination . And it’s just a matter of time before new regulations start to surface here too.  Unfortunately, the vast majority of people impaired by these products are young, often those not yet of legal drinking age. They mix it with juices and stimulant drinks that enhance the poisonous effects. According to the American Cancer Society, cancers linked to alcohol use include mouth, throat, voice box, esophagus, liver, colon and rectum, breasts, and even pancreatic cancer. For each of these cancers, the risk increases with the amount of alcohol consumed.
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Heavy drinking can cause cancer, heart disease, stroke, liver failure and other diseases, and drinkers are more likely to die in acccidents or to be murdered. And people who drink and smoke together raise their serious health disease risk even more. 
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Alcohol is still an  ‘important  cause’  of premature death .  Overall, most deaths were due to liver disease (63 per cent) and neuropsychiatric disorders (32 per cent). Excessive alcohol use can cause or exacerbate disorders such as alcohol dependence syndrome, depression, anxiety and psychotic episodes.  In Canada, the U.S., Argentina and Costa Rica, Cuba, the highest mortality rates were seen among those aged 50 to 69

https://thenonconformer.wordpress.com/2013/04/01/alcohol-consumptiom-is-still-one-of-canadas-biggest-problem/

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see also

http://thenonconformer.wordpress.com/2008/07/18/the-pcs-said-the-liberals-were-crooked-but-what-about-themselves/

https://anyonecare.wordpress.com/2008/07/16/just-by-me-merely-observing/

http://thenonconformer.wordpress.com/2008/07/22/pm-stephen-harper-needs-to-get-better-friends-needs-to-repent-himself-too/

 

 

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8 Comments »

  1. […] http://postedat.wordpress.com/2008/07/02/issues/ http://thefocusonthefamily.wordpress.com/2008/06/30/abstainers/ http://pbulow.tripod.com/

    The non conformer says- “Reality! These days it is too hard to tell the difference between secular persons and the professing Christians . Genuine Born Again Evangelical Christians are total abstainers from smoking, drugs, alcohol, cheating, lying, stealing, tax evasions, pornography, or rather all personal vices, Impairments http://thefocusonthefamily.wordpress.com/2008/06/30/abstainers/

    The major undeniable weakness, weakness, discrepancies, shortfall in the soft underbelly of the personal life of Barrack Obama and even Canada’s prime Minister Stephen Harper is clear, and is that already proven too, that there is a wide discrepancy between what he verbally says he is and who he really is now and and what he in fact still next does. Even now starting clearly with his profession of being a real practicing Christian. Barack Obama for continuity he is not a real practicing Christian and he undeniably has violated God laws continually, and there is no excuse for it.. While it is often a thorny issue, discussion in the Christian faith, amongst the protestants and evangelicals whether Christians drinking wine is tolerate now, the Bible in both the old and new testament clearly and undeniably still says that anyone in a leadership position cannot consume wine, alcohol or get drunk. This is not even subject even to any debate now as well. Both Obama and Bilden do undeniably drink alcohol now.. and what about McCain and Palin now too?

    Again ““Dr. Daniel Akin, President of Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary has written an article in favor of the famous Resolution #5 (Resolution calling for total opposition to alcohol). Alcohol is the number one drug problem among teenagers. (1 Cor. 8:13; 9:19-22; 10:32-33). Because I am an example to others, I will make certain no one ever walks the road of sorrow called alcoholism because they saw me take a drink and assumed, “if it is alright for him it is alright for me.” No, I will choose to set an uncompromising example of abstinence because I love them. I will seek my joy and filling in the Spirit not in alcohol. I love the Phillips translation of Ephesians 5:18 which reads, “Don’t get your stimulus from wine (for there is always the danger of excessive drinking), but let the Spirit stimulate your souls.” Psalm 4:7-8 adds, “You [O Lord] have put more joy in my heart than they have when their grain and wine abound. In peace I will both lie down and sleep; for you alone, O Lord, make me dwell in safety.” There is no record that Jesus drank strong drink, As a pastor or church leader, would I demand abstinence for leadership? Absolutely! The principle of Proverbs 31:4-5 is appropriately applied here, “It is not for Kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine, or for rulers to take strong drink, lest they drink and forget what has been decreed and pervert the rights of all the afflicted.” “

    (1 Cor 11:28 KJV) But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. 30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

    (Prov 3:33 KJV) The curse of the LORD is in the house of the wicked: but he blesseth the habitation of the just.

    Jesus himself had said that professing to be a Christian is not enough,

    Matt 3:8 Bring forth fruit that is consistent with repentance [let your lives prove your change of heart];

    Gal 5:23 Gentleness (meekness, humility), self-control (self-restraint, continence). Against such things there is no law [that can bring a charge].

    Matt 7:16 You will fully recognize them by their fruits. Do people pick grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles?17 Even so, every healthy (sound) tree bears good fruit [worthy of admiration], but the sickly (decaying, worthless) tree bears bad (worthless) fruit. 18 A good (healthy) tree cannot bear bad (worthless) fruit, nor can a bad (diseased) tree bear excellent fruit [worthy of admiration]. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and cast into the fire. 20 Therefore, you will fully know them by their fruits.

    The Bible’s suggestions on electing rulers.. good managers

    (Deu 1:13 KJV) Take you wise men, and understanding, and known among your tribes, and I will make them rulers over you.
    (Deu 1:14 KJV) And ye answered me, and said, The thing which thou hast spoken is good for us to do.
    (Deu 1:15 KJV) So I took the chief of your tribes, wise men, and known, and made them heads over you, captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, and captains over fifties, and captains over tens, and officers among your tribes.
    (Deu 1:16 KJV) And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.
    (Deu 1:17 KJV) Ye shall not respect persons in judgment; but ye shall hear the small as well as the great; ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God’s: and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto me, and I will hear it.
    (Deu 1:18 KJV) And I commanded you at that time all the things which ye should do.

    (1 Tim 3:1 KJV) This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
    (1 Tim 3:2 KJV) A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
    (1 Tim 3:3 KJV) Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
    (1 Tim 3:4 KJV) One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
    (1 Tim 3:5 KJV) (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
    (1 Tim 3:6 KJV) Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
    (1 Tim 3:7 KJV) Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

    1 Tim 3:2 Now a bishop (superintendent, overseer) must give no grounds for accusation {but} must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, circumspect {and} temperate {and} self-controlled ( Sober) ; [he must be] sensible {and} well behaved {and} dignified and lead an orderly (disciplined) life; [he must be] hospitable [showing love for and being a friend to the believers, especially strangers or foreigners, and be] a capable {and} qualified teacher,

    Alcoholics, wine drinkers, smokers, drug users too they all tend to have evidentially lost their self control..

    Undeniably whether you are also a leader or not getting drunk is still an unacceptable sin as well. And all true Christians consider this still a sinful act

    Obama amongst some others reiterated his support for civil unions for homosexuals. No surprise there. Some Christians do indeed allow for the conferring of some legal rights, short of marital status, on gays as a simple matter of fairness. We cannot legislate or enforce morality. Nevertheless all true Christians consider this a sinful act But I suspect his rationale raised some hackles. “If people find that controversial then I would just refer them to the Sermon on the Mount, which I think is, in my mind, for my faith, more central than an obscure passage in Romans”. Barrack Obama. Since when did Romans 1 become obscure? I thought pitting the words of Jesus against those of Paul was a tactic of Red Letter Christians, not something a serious candidate for the Oval Office would engage in.There is no refererence to gay civil unions in the Sermon on the Mount (unless you stretch the Golden Rule beyond all recognition). Perhaps Obama mixed up his Bible references Is Barack Obama a Red Letter Christian? ”
    http://blog.christianitytoday.com/ctliveblog/archives/2008/03/is_barack_obama.html […]

    Pingback by Issues « Posted at wordpress.com — July 3, 2008 @ 10:56 am

  2. to: http://spiritualbattleground.wordpress.com/2008/07/05/called-to-be-saints/#comment-109

    Mr Spurgeon should have practise what he preached firstly for he could not give up his sin of smoking a cigar even. https://anyonecare.wordpress.com/

    other pastors did not and could not give up alcohol, drunkenness, adultery, cheating, lying stealing,, and what else?

    Genuine Born Again Evangelical Christians are total abstainers from smoking, drugs, alcohol, cheating, lying, stealing, tax evasions, pornography, or rather all personal vices.

    Reality! These days it is too hard to tell the difference between secular persons and even evangelical pastors, Christians they seem to do the same things too. Why are alcoholics always in denial? and why do they often lie, cheat, steal also now? Because if they do admit the truth they are alcoholics, sinners too they do have now to repent of the sin of disobeying God’s word about being drunk too.. so they take the ostrich denial approach instead too often. Alcoholism still is a sin of a deliberate, personal choice, and to be set free you have to admit your sin, confess it, renounce it, ask God for forgiveness through Jesus Christ as well.. It is not only wrong for the average person it is also especially wrong for leaders in the government, politicians. It is amazing how one can quickly spot an alcoholic, while they cannot still see their sin, and how quick they are to oppose themselves being exposed now too..

    I admit I had lost all respect for the supposedly great preacher Spurgeon who was so ready to preach to others about their sins, but he himself now could not resist the Temptation of a cigar. Similar we find out that other preachers could not give up smoking too.. Look at this reference in regard to AB Simpson, the past founder of the Christian Missionary Alliance denomination now too. “The Man, the movement, and the mission-A documentary of the C&MA” Cut directly from their national web site. It was the custom for the ministers of the district to meet together to discuss all things common. This little reunion, in its proper sequence, was held one day at the Manse. And unaccountably strange odor of tobacco smoke began to steal upstairs. Suddenly the study door flew open and a towering figure of fury – all of four feet, one inch in its stocking feet – stood at the threshold. “SMOKING! Out of this house!” said Grannie Simpson, and in a body the ministerial association moved. https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=15796002&postID=3424830162204895882 http://reversion-clause.com/

    Comment by thenonconformer — July 6, 2008 @ 11:09 am

  3. >> First of all, the problems with Pentecostal and Charismatic Christianity…

    says the devil..

    such a loaded, biased, distorted false statement still firstly indicates more bad things solely ABOUT the poster AND not any of the Pentecostals.. and anyone who thinks this still is a Bonaire, valid post are grossly mistaken too

    and quoting Bible verses out of context too often too… such as Timothy 5:23 as a supposed justification now for drunkenness, alcoholics in the church is an absurd perversion andit is still too showing us all what false sprits they are being led by, not the holy Spirit for sure… who says there is a problem solely with the pentacostals.. most fundamentals have just as much or often more theological errors, divisions, disputes, falsehoods it seems till too.. evangelicals seem to falsely substitute preaching to others, bashing the others for not living the Gospel of Jesus Christ still too

    (1 Cor 1:10 KJV) Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

    (1 Cor 3:3 KJV) For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

    (1 Cor 11:18 KJV) For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
    19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. 20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord’s supper. 21 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. 22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.

    isn’t is still amazing how many of these so called professing Christians now cannot even give up smoking, alcohol, beer and what else? for the lord Jesus Christ.. then they have not died to Christ yet but are wrongfully living to the flesh still too

    but there has always been an ungodly holy war between the unspiritual carnal persons and the holy spirit filled Christian persons so this is nothing new.. the carnal flesh opposes the spirit, the work of God often.

    http://thefocusonthefamily.wordpress.com/2008/06/30/abstainers/

    Comment by thenonconformer — July 10, 2008 @ 2:37 am

  4. I have often thought about the reality that the majority of persons had never claimed to be saved, healed, delivered, from reading a telephone book or even books by some of the world’s greatest, the most known authors writers. And yet there have been millions of persons whose life have been definitely changed, personally altered, for the good, lives transformed, whose sins have been forgiven cause they read the Bible and applied it. Even Alcoholic anonymous and their 12 step program admit that God alone forgives the sins of alcoholics, and transformers the person next too, if they admit their sin and humbly ask God to do so too. Beware though – most bad persons, drug addicts and alcoholic ones included they employ false denial techniques that build more walls between them and others

    And in truth the only people I have ever seen who manifested any lasting, real changes were these people changed by God, who had next became born again, and to be fully truthful here too next half of them even got worse again next, a dog who returned to their vomit, they denied next the DENIED THE SAME FAITH THEY BELIEVED IN TOO.

    The Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous rightfully says that only God can next heal, relieve the sin, the illness of addiction. It requires the addictive person to first confess they have sinned and next ask for God’s forgiveness, help.

    Too many a persons also do falsely deny who they really are, hiding behind prestigious or pretentious facade that they are unknown, cannot be discerned, read, known cause they are too complex.. you can fool some of the people some of the time, most of the people most of the time but not all of the people all of the time..

    The fastest way to change is by praying, even by the prayers of others, reading the Bible as well..

    Jesus himself said a person can be known simply by what they do. good people do good things.. and bad people tend to do bad things.

    (Mat 7:18 KJV) A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

    (Mat 7:19 KJV) Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

    (Mat 7:20 KJV) Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

    (Mat 7:21 KJV) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

    (Mat 7:22 KJV) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

    (Mat 7:23 KJV) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    (Mat 7:24 KJV) Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

    (Mat 7:25 KJV) And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

    (Mat 7:26 KJV) And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

    (Mat 7:27 KJV) And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

    Beware always of men and women, bullies, tormentors, control freaks, persons, civil and public servants, politicians, pastors, leaders, elders, who falsely do, will try to enslave you, oppress you, exploit you even while they claim they are proclaiming the truth, democracy, trying to help you, etc.,

    Is 51:23 ..your tormentors {and} oppressors, those who said to you, Bow down, that we may ride {or} tread over you; and you have made your back like the ground and like the street for them to pass over.

    People to make money even these days tell all kind of lies … Today many Children are also being falsely led to believe that Gambling, Alcohol and Bad drug use is generally safe. The average 18 year old has seen 100,000 television commercials encouraging him or her to drink. That’s why 80% of high school seniors have tried alcohol, 32% have gotten drunk in the last thirty days, 43% smoke marijuana, and about one third are smoking cigarettes. Most addicts die of their addiction and they take their family members down with them. The first step in any help program recovery is to get honest with yourself. Get honest even as to what the other person is really like.. Do not let them take you down the drain with them next too..

    We all must take any personal addiction seriously because 25% of North Americans die as a result of substance abuse. The average alcoholic dies twenty-six years earlier than he or she would otherwise. Drug users, alcoholics, cheaters, abusers, adulterers affect negatively continually too the lives of at least six others

    Being nice. kind, friendly to a really bad person is still also a complete waste of time, for they will not change their negative behaviors on their own, they see no reasons to do so now still too. Sad but true. We cannot never control a bad person, a drug addict or an alcoholic, but we can learn all about it and learn firstly to control our own behavior, appropriate Responses -including how we should behave in the relationship with the sick and suffering and /or possibly manipulative addict or alcoholic, abuser..

    Can a Person change themselves? Is there hope for anyone? Only if they follow God’s rules!! Accepting Jesus! and we all should look at the calendar.. 2008 ad.. 2008 years after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ… so undeniably of an event it even changed the calendar history too.

    Trying to help an abuser? Establish clear, simple to follow Boundaries, Set Limits, Set detachment. One example of setting a boundary is telling a close friend, a loved one that you prefer they not be around you if they are smoking, drunk or high. Notice that it is specific demand, and you have to sit down and communicate this type of request explicitly with that someone. Setting a boundary like this is difficult because there is this tendency to hurt other’s feelings. But that is part of what is keeping you ineffective- your caring more about this person’s feelings than your own personal well being. Setting boundaries is about putting your own personal well being and even that of others first, and letting that be a guiding example of how to live. You know you are setting effective boundaries when you are taking back control of your own life firstly and starting to regain your own sanity-instead of being all wrapped up in the problems of a struggling smoker, rebel, drug addict or alcoholic.

    “Here are some things that you can do in order to practice detachment with the struggling pervert in your life:
    -Don’t do things that they should be doing themselves.
    -Don’t bend over backwards to rescue them or save them from natural consequences.
    -Don’t cover up for their mistakes or embarrassing situations.
    -Don’t rescue them from crisis or financial situations.
    -Don’t try to fix them.
    -Let go of any guilt you may have about them

    Detachment is not about denying your emotions. If someone close to you dies, for example, you will probably feel sad. You can’t choose this feeling. It simply is. But we do have the power to affect the intensity of this feeling, by focusing on the positive aspects of the situation. We can also change our thinking in an attempt to eradicate irrational beliefs that might be contributing to our emotional turmoil.

    The goal is not to go without emotions, the goal is to achieve some level of emotional stability. We are detaching from the negative, irrational thoughts that stir up our emotions-like the guilt we might have if we think someone’s perversity, addiction is our fault.

    Detachment is difficult and takes practice but it helps the whole works..

    Comment by thenonconformer — August 3, 2008 @ 2:54 pm

  5. i was specifically praying now as to What Kind of Christian is Obama? when the news came on the TV and there he was in color at an alcoholic bar drinking alcoholic BEVERAGES WITH THE OTHER FOLKS THERE.. NOT AT ALL A GOOD EXAMPLE OF SELF CONTROL FOR A LEADER NOW.. in light that alcohol leads more people to get arrested for violence, drunk driving, spousal abuse than almost any other fact now too. I am sure a real Christian like Sarah PALIN is an abstainer and RIGHTFULLY does not give alcohol or pornography to her friends, associates..
    (Prov 31:6 KJV) Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. 7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.

    I have had many, many unexpected shocks in my life.. like finding out too often still that many of my pastor were real crooks, dishonest persons.. and why was that?

    Too many persons lie, made a pretence of who they are, put on an act, a show.. do wrongfully think they can fool most of the people and get away with it.. but for how long?

    (Gal 6:7 KJV) Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

    (Mat 10:25 KJV) It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household? 26 Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known. 27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.

    (2 Cor 4:2 KJV) But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.

    (1 Pet 3:4 KJV) But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

    Comment by thenonconformer — September 17, 2008 @ 11:58 am

  6. Is Obama What another type of Christian also now ? Are there now really so many different types? My next door neighbor tells me he is a Christian, and he says is a member of the church of Jesus Christ, the LATTER DAY SAINTS, Mormons, and he says now today he reads the Bible and prays daily too. But when I started to ask him about what the Apostle had said in the Bible now about getting drunk, he next said he did not believe in any of the the 12 apostles writings, but yes, he believes that these writings they are in the books that supposedly composing the Common Bible, but he does not believe they are really part of the valid Bible. So when I next had further asked him what he now had defined as being the true Bible, he said the Bible according to Him now was solely the spoken word of Jesus. He is another one of those red lettered Christians.. So I asked him if he believed solely in the 4 Gospels, the Bible books written now anyway by some of the 12 Apostles of Jesus anyway, even Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.. and so if he really is now believing in the 4 Gospel, the still Apostolic writings so what was the problem in him now even believing that the Book of Revelation in the Standard Bible now was aalso a part of the Bible? After all it was written by the same Apostle John who now had written the book of John, and the epistles of John now too.. Now he next replied and had said he did not believe in the book of Revelation as being a part of the Bible. Wow! This is getting all so confusing, needlessly complicated too , listening to him firstly. Really now what does he believe in cause I really cannot figure out how he picks and chooses to believe, it seems he believes in the ten commandments, but he does not even know what they are still too, he really believes in the Gospel solely according to him and not the Gospel according to Jesus and the Apostles.. and he admits has these complex rules for Bible interpretations as to what is valid and what is not, all made by his church, and he next had said I should go to his church to find out what these rules now are. I replied and said I did not need any more of these clearly false mere man made religion, rules to tell me what part of the Bible I should believe in firstly , for the Holy sprit himself, the spirit of Christ has clearly promised to lead us and to guide us personaly now into all truth, not rather anyone else who admits they do not even believe in the standard Bible now too. The Bible and Jesus Christ is the same yesterday today and forever too. I can read for myself and I can believe in it myself without has clearly distorted directions, guidance, rules now too. . I also either take it all as being God’s word’s or none of it. It is as simple as that for a start now too.

    Comment by thenonconformer — October 15, 2008 @ 6:18 am

  7. Ignorance is still no excuse in the eyes of the law and in the eyes of God..

    (Psa 73:22 KJV) So foolish was I, and ignorant: I was as a beast before thee.

    (Isa 56:10 KJV) His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber. 11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter. 12 Come ye, say they, I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and to morrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant.

    (Rom 10:3 KJV) For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

    “Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise” Proverbs 20:1;

    “Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder” Proverbs 23:29-32;

    “But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment. For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean” Isaiah 28:7-8.

    (1 Cor 14:38 KJV) But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

    Living for Christ: A Lifestyle that Honours God

    1 Timothy 5:23: “Use a little wine for the sake of your stomach” A favorite verse of many people is Paul’s advice to Timothy in 1 Timothy 5:23 to “No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.” We need to note several things. Timothy obviously doesn’t even drink grape juice! (Note: in an earlier letter 1 Tim 3:2-3 Paul had told Timothy an Elderto be abstinent (nephalion), and a nonparticipant at drinking places and parties (meparoinon). Obviously advise Timothy had carefully followed). Additionally this is only for a ‘medical’ reason. Most significantly, historical testimonies tell us the ancients advised the use of use of unfermented wine for medical purposes. For example, Athenaeus, theGrammarian (A.D. 280), specifically advises one use unfermented “sweet wine” (glukonoinon) for stomach disorders. He writes: “Let him take sweet wine, either mixed with water or warmed, especially that kind called protropos, the sweet Lesbian glukus, asbeing good for the stomach; for sweet wine [oinos] does not make the head heavy.” (Athenaeus, Banquet 2, 24). This sounds similar to Paul. Athenaeus calls the wine” lesbian” because its alcoholic potency had been removed. Pliny (A. D. 79), a contemporary of Paul and author of the celebrated Natural History gives similar recommendations. He advise the use of boiled unfermented wine called adynamon for sick persons “for whom it is feared that wine may be harmful.” (Pliny, Natural History 14,18). Even if it were alcoholic wine Paul was talking about, it would only justify medical uses of alcohol. Paul is not here suggesting moderate drinking. Be abstinent The New Testament often admonitions abstinence through the Greek verb nepho and the adjective nephalios

    ((1 Th 5:6 KJV) Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
    (1 Th 5:7 KJV) For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
    (1 Th 5:8 KJV) But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
    (1 Tim 3:2 KJV) A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
    (1 Tim 3:11 KJV) Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
    (2 Tim 4:5 KJV) But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
    (Titus 2:2 KJV) That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.
    (1 Pet 1:13 KJV) Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
    (1 Pet 4:7 KJV) But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.
    (1 Pet 5:8 KJV) Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:).
    So note how many times the new testament says to be soberan d it should be translated as abstinent or abstaining from wine

    There is noteworthy unanimity among Greek lexicons on the primary meaning of the verb nepho as “to abstain from wine” and of the adjective nephalios as”abstinent, without wine.” (See, for example, G. W. Lampe, A Patristic Greek Lexicon (Oxford, 1961),s. v. “Nepho”; James Donnegan, A New Greek and English Lexicon, 1847 edition, s. v. ” Nepho”; ThomasS. Green, A Greek-English Lexicon to the New Testament, 1892 edition, s. v. ” Nepho”; E. Robinson, AGreek and English Lexicon of the New Testament (New York, 1850), s. v. ” Nepho”; G. Abbott-Smith, AManual Greek Lexicon of the New Testament, 1937 edition, s. v. ” Nepho”; Hesychius of Alexandria,Hesychii Alexandri Lexicon, 1858 edition, s. v. ” Nephalios”; Demetrios C. S. Byzantios, Lexicon Epitomoutes Ellenikes Glosses, 1939 edition, s. v. “Nephalios.”). Josephus and Philo, who were contemporaries of Paul and Peter, both tell us the priests, who were not allowed to drink any wine were nephalioi andnephalios. (Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews 3, 12, 2, trans. William Whiston, Josephus Complete Works(Grand Rapids, 1974), p. 81 and Philo, De Specialibus Legibus 4, 183). The adjective nephalios in ((1 Tim 3:2 KJV) A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; (1 Tim 3:11 KJV) Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things. (Titus 2:2 KJV) That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.) can and should be read as abstinent. And nepho in ((1 Th 5:6 KJV) Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. (1 Th 5:7 KJV) For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. (1 Th 5:8 KJV) But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. (1 Pet 1:13 KJV) Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; (1 Pet 5:8 KJV) Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: ), should be translated as abstinent or abstaining from wine. Unfortunately, translators soften the meaning of the word and translate it in amore figurative sense as merely “temperate, sober, steady. ”While there is no simplistic “Thou shall not” command concerning alcohol, the Bible warns against wine that intoxicates. In addition to the Bibles warnings, there are many reasons for a Christian to avoid alcohol. Up to half of all crime is committed while under the influence of alcohol. There is our influence and example to friends, family and children (you cannot teach what you refuse to practice – its called hypocrisy). Many people are strongly predisposed to alcoholism and one drink may begin a lifetime of struggle and suffering. Finally, in view of Jesus soon return, we should avoid anything that would adversely affect our minds, hearts, bodies and social example. (Note: This study has used/adapted material from “Wine in the Bible” by S. Bacchiocchi).

    Alcohol causes more pain, death and suffering than all illegal drugs and should be completely avoided by a disciple of Jesus for moral, spiritual and scriptural reasons

    What about wine or alcohol? The Bible has no simplistic command that says, “You shall not drink alcohol,” though some warnings come close (The Bible doesn’t say, “Don’ttake LSD”, yet all Christians rightly condemn such drugs). However, the whole voice and direction of the Bible is clearly against intoxicating drink. We can tell this because wine that intoxicates is portrayed negatively in Biblical narratives and is routinely warned against ((Lev 10:8 KJV) And the LORD spake unto Aaron, saying, (Lev 10:9 KJV) Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations: (Lev 10:10 KJV) And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean;
    (Lev 10:11 KJV) And that ye may teach the children of Israel all the statutes which the LORD hath spoken unto them by the hand of Moses. (Judg 13:3 KJV) And the angel of the LORD appeared unto the woman, and said unto her, Behold now, thou art barren, and bearest not: but thou shalt conceive, and bear a son. (Judg 13:4 KJV) Now therefore beware, I pray thee, and drink not wine nor strong drink, and eat not any unclean thing: (Prov 20:1 KJV) Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. (Prov 23:31 KJV) Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. (Prov 31:4 KJV) It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink: (Prov 31:5 KJV) Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted. (Hab 2:5 KJV) Yea also, because he transgresseth by wine, he is a proud man, neither keepeth at home, who enlargeth his desire as hell, and is as death, and cannot be satisfied, but gathereth unto him all nations, and heapeth unto him all people: (Eph 5:18 KJV) And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; (1 Tim 3:2 KJV) A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; (1 Tim 3:3 KJV) Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; ), whereas non-intoxicating wine is portrayed positively ((Gen 27:28 KJV) Therefore God give thee of the dew of heaven, and the fatness of the earth, and plenty of corn and wine: (Gen 49:10 KJV) The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be. (Gen 49:11 KJV) Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass’s colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes: (Gen 49:12 KJV) His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk. (Psa 104:14 KJV) He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man: that he may bring forth food out of the earth; (Psa 104:15 KJV) And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man’s heart. (Isa 55:1 KJV) Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price. (Amos 9:13 KJV) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt. (John 2:10 KJV) And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now. (John 2:11 KJV) This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.). This simultaneous approval and disapproval of ‘wine’ can seem confusing and contradictory. This problem largely disappears when we realize that the Hebrew and Greek words for wine (yayin and oinos) can mean either fermented or unfermented wine. The ancient writers who were contemporaries with many of the Biblical writers use the words to refer to both types of wine.

    For example in his book Metereologica, Aristotle (384-322 B.C.) speaks of unfermented grape juice (glukus), saying: “though called wine [oinos], it has not the effect of wine, for it does not taste like wine and does not intoxicate like ordinary wine.” Aristotle explicitly tells us unfermented grape juice was called “oinos” or “wine”. Other examples can be found in ancient Jewish writings also (The Septuagint, a translation of the Old Testament in Greek, often translates the Hebrew word for grape-juice “tirosh” by the Greek word ‘oinos’ or wine). The problem is not wine but what kind of wine. The Bible speaks against fermented wine, but for unfermented wine. Scripture condemns the use of alcoholic beverages because they distort the perception of reality ((Prov 23:33 KJV) Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things. (Isa 28:7 KJV) But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment. ); they impair the capacity to make moral, responsible decisions ((Lev 10:9 KJV) Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations: (Lev 10:10 KJV) And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean; (Lev 10:11 KJV) And that ye may teach the children of Israel all the statutes which the LORD hath spoken unto them by the hand of Moses.); they weaken moral sensitivities and inhibitions ((Gen 9:21 KJV) And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent. (Gen 19:32 KJV) Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. (Isa 5:11 KJV) Woe unto them that rise up early in the morning, that they may follow strong drink; that continue until night, till wine inflame them! (Isa 5:12 KJV) And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD, neither consider the operation of his hands. (Hab 2:15 KJV) Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness! ); they cause physical sickness ((Psa 60:3 KJV) Thou hast showed thy people hard things: thou hast made us to drink the wine of astonishment. (Prov 23:20 KJV) Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh: (Prov 23:21 KJV) For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags. (Isa 19:14 KJV) The LORD hath mingled a perverse spirit in the midst thereof: and they have caused Egypt to err in every work thereof, as a drunken man staggereth in his vomit. (Hosea 7:5 KJV) In the day of our king the princes have made him sick with bottles of wine; he stretched out his hand with scorners. ); and they disqualify for civil and religious service ((Lev 10:9 KJV) Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations: (Lev 10:10 KJV) And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean; (Lev 10:11 KJV) And that ye may teach the children of Israel all the statutes which the LORD hath spoken unto them by the hand of Moses. (Prov 31:4 KJV) It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink: (Prov 31:5 KJV) Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted. (1 Tim 3:2 KJV) A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; (1 Tim 3:3 KJV) Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; (Titus 1:7 KJV) For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; (Titus 1:8 KJV) But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate; ). Contrary to popular opinion, it was as hard if not harder to preserve fermented wine than unfermented grape juice. To prevent fermented wine from becoming acid, moldy, or foul-smelling, the ancients used many preservatives such as salt, sea-water, liquid or solid pitch, boiled-down must, marble dust, lime, sulphur fumes or crushed iris. In comparison the preservation of grape juice unfermented was a relatively simpler process. Ancient sources inform us of four main ways: (1) by boiling down the juice to a syrup, (2) by separating the fermentable pulp from the juice of the grape by means of filtration, (3) by placing freshly pressed grape juice in sealed jars which were immersed in a pool of cold water, and (4) by fumigating the wine jars with sulphur before sealing them. What follows are some Bible texts that are commonly misused by people to justify moderate drinking .

    Many think Jesus turned water into alcoholic wine at the wedding of Cana. Supposedly “good wine” is that which has a high alcoholic content. However, ancient authors from Jesus day considered “good wine” to be unfermented wine whose alcoholic potency had been removed by boiling or filtration. Pliny, for example, says “wines are most beneficial (utilissimum) when all their potency has been removed by the strainer.” (Pliny, Natural History 23, 24, trans. W. H. S. Jones, The Loeb Classical Library, Cambridge, Massachusetts, 1961). Similarly, Plutarch tells us wine is “much more pleasant to drink” when it “neither inflames the brain nor infests the mind or passions” because its strength has been removed through frequent filtering. (Plutarch, Symposiac 8, 7). The ancient Jewish Talmud indicates that drinking to the accompaniment of musical instruments on festive occasions such as a wedding was forbidden. (See Sotah 48a; also Mishna Sotah 9, 11). Some interpret John 2:10 “well drunk” as meaning very intoxicated. But the Greek verb methusko is correctly translated “to drink freely” by the RSV of the Bible, without any implication of intoxication. New Wine in New Wineskins Christ’s statement that “new wine must be put into fresh wineskins” ((Mat 9:17 KJV) Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved. (Mark 2:22 KJV) And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles. (Luke 5:38 KJV) But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.), supposedly indicates Jesus approved use of alcohol. This is a strangein terpretation, as Jesus is not even talking about whether one should drink wine or not. Nothing in this passage supports drinking alcohol. It is probable that the wine is non-alcoholic as it is simply not possible for new or old wineskins to withstand the pressure of fermentation! Unfermented grape juice must be put into new wineskins. If new wine was put into old wineskins, remnant material from the pervious wine could start fermentation and develop gas with an enormous pressure that would burst and ruinboth the grape juice and the skin. Unfermented must, after it had been filtered or boiled, is ‘new wine’ which could be safely stored in new wineskins. Luke adds the following tothis story “And no one after drinking old wine desires new; for he says, ‘The old is good ‘”(Luke 5:39). Some people claim Jesus is commending old wine, which is likely fermented. They miss the whole point. In verses 33-39 Jesus is describing how the ‘old’ ways of the Pharisees don’t like the ‘new’ work of Jesus. Jesus says not to put new wine into old wineskins, a new patch on an old garment. He then concludes that one who is used to old wine won’t want the new. The person preferring the old (fermented wine) is the Pharisee who is resisting Jesus new teachings. The Last Supper During Passover time when Jesus instituted the last supper he referred to the wine as the “the fruit of the vine” ( (Mat 26:29 KJV) But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom. (Mark 14:25 KJV) Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God. (Luke 22:18 KJV) For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come. ). The noun “fruit” (gennema) emphasizes this ‘wine’ is that which is in its natural state, just as it is gathered. Fermented wine is not the natural “fruit of the vine” but the unnatural fruit offermentation and decay. The Jewish historian Josephus, a contemporary of the apostles, explicitly calls the three clusters of grapes freshly squeezed in a cup by Pharaoh’s cupbearer as “the fruit of the vine.” (Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews 2, 5,2). The phrase is clearly used to refer to the sweet, unfermented juice of the grape. We should also note that all fermented products (leaven bread etc) were to be disregarded at Passover time. Numerous ancient Christian groups use unfermented grape juice for the last supper.
    http://74.125.95.104/search?q=cache:uSTsTdHBOVkJ:www.livingstonsda.org.au/7livingextra.pdf+what+is+the+meaning+of+23+Drink+no+longer+water,+but+use+a+little+wine+for+thy+stomach%27s+sake&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2

    In speaking of the ungodliness of the Gentiles, Peter wrote, “For we have spent enough of our past lifetime in doing the will of Gentiles — when we walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries” (1 Pet 4:3 – NKJV).
    In listing the works of the flesh in Galatians 5:19-21, the apostle Paul mentions both drunkenness and revelries. But just in case that wasn’t clear enough, he added these words, “and the like” (v 21). This would be considered somewhat of a “catch-all” phrase for any evil thing not specified in the previous verses. In 1 Thessalonians 5:21-22, Paul wrote, “Test all things; hold fast what is good. Abstain from every form of evil” (NKJV). The word translated “good” is from the Greek kalos, meaning “commendable, admirable, excellent in its nature and characteristics, praiseworthy, morally good, noble, affecting the mind agreeably” (Strong’s). None of these traits can be ascribed to the use of alcohol.

    The use of alcohol in moderation in social or private settings has many defenders, but no defense. Remember Paul’s admonition to Timothy, “Be not a partaker in other men’s sins, keep thy self pure” (1 Tim 5:22).

    http://www.housetohouse.com/hth/biblequestions/archive/question0029.htm

    Comment by thenonconformer — October 19, 2008 @ 5:08 pm


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