Missing the point?

July 29, 2008

The 2 Promised Returns of Jews to Israel?

(Mat 23:37 KJV)  O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38  Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39  For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.  24:1  And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to show him the buildings of the temple.  2  And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.  

I do also believe that God divinely still looks after Israel and protects it, but this is never a justification of any of Israel’s past or present acts..  

 
  The 2 Jewish dispersions by the gentiles were both predicted beforehand. One was predicted by the prophet Jeremiah in the Old Testament, and one by Jesus Christ himself in the New Testament. It is important to note that in the first prediction about the dispersions of Israel from their promised land there was a God given promise of their return. It is important to note that in the second prediction about the dispersions of Israel from their promised land there was no  God given promise of their return. There actually is no Biblical promised prophecy, promised second return of the Jews to Israel in the Old Testament or in the whole Bible now too.  after their second  dispersion from Israel by the Romans in 70 ad.. . Not even one Bible verse even  for  the Jewish  return in 1948..  Do try prove me wrong.. http://postedat.wordpress.com/2008/12/09/what-the-bible-says-about-israel-and-the-church/
 

At Mount Sinai God told Moses as to how He would proceed to put the children of Israel in possession of their promised inheritance. He would not drive out the inhabitants of the land “in one year”; but He said, “little by little I will drive them out from before thee, until thou be increased, and inherit the land.” And He God next goes on to say that He would set the bounds of their possession “from the desert unto the river” (Euphrates), and would “deliver the inhabitants of the land” into their hand, and they should “drive them out” before them (Ex. 23:27-31).

Joshua 1:8 … This Book of the Law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do according to all that is written in it. For then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have good success.

“Behold, I have set the land before you; go in and possess the land which the Lord sware unto your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, to give unto them and to their seed after them” (Deut. 1:6-8).

“Every place whereon the soles of your feet shall tread shall be yours; from the wilderness and Lebanon, from the river, the river Euphrates, even unto the uttermost sea shall your coast be” (Deut. 11:24).

“And Solomon reigned over all kingdoms, from the river [i.e., the Euphrates] unto the land of the Philistines, and unto the border of Egypt… For he had dominion over all the region on this side of the river, from Tiphsah even to Azzah, over all the kings on this side of the river” (1 Ki. 4:21, 24. See also 2 Chron. 9:26).

And  the above Land promise was duly fulfilled to all of Abraham’s natural “seed,” and the Bible contains clear records of the fact, and the promise in its fullness runs to Abraham’s true “Seed”, all those persons who are in Christ

“For the promise that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith”   Romans 4:13

 “Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham”; Galatians 3:7.

 , “And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.”  Galatians 3:29

“And ye have this day rejected your God, who Himself saved you out of all your adversities and your tribulations, and ye have said unto Him, Nay, but set a king over us” (1 Sam. 10:17-19).

Now natural Israel has no longer any standing before God, or any part in His future purposes. The New Testament Scriptures makes it now  certain that the national restoration of Israel after the flesh is not a part of the revealed will of God, but that the reverse is true. God regards natural Israel  earthly kingdom with utter detestation, and He will never restore it, Next when John the Baptist preached to the Jewish people, saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand,” he was not announcing the setting up again of the earthly throne of David for israel as many Jews, some professing Christians  falsely hoped, believe it would happen again.

 

It is unbelievable, undeniable  that the professing Christian people who do not know the Bible can be so easily deceived, led astray too by many others, pastors and Jewish persons, Zionists included.. And had most people most Christians read the Bible for themselves they would have known the whole truth and would not have been  so easily misled by others. 

I really get sick every time I hear preachers such as John Hagee and Jerry Falwell demonize the Arab people, while glorifying the Jews. http://witnessed.wordpress.com/2008/07/28/john-hagee%e2%80%99s-israel-heresy/

Too many fundamentals, professing Christians now falsely do that the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948 was prophesied in Scripture while there is no direct support of this in the New Testament Bible even still. Zionism, on the other hand, “is a secularist, largely atheistic ideology” that emerged in the late 19th century. God still does not require the human input to fulfill his own prophecies. Now too many Christian Zionists, extremists do falsely do now believe that in order to fulfill all of the Biblical prophecy, Israel must next conquer most of the Middle East. And anyone watched the mostly self centered, get richer TV evangelists such as a Pat Robertson or John Hagee and their distorted sermons scenarios involving the future “Rapture,” Jesus Christ and also Israel, should also quickly firstly now realize that these false prophets are not only fleecing, scaring their flock to give more money but falsely are into worshipping the false idol of Israel. .John Hagee pays himself over a million dollars a year in TAX FREE money while having several palaces to live in, like the $2.1 million 7,969-acre ranch outside Brackettville, Texas , with five lodges, including a “main lodge” and a gun locker.;Once considered a small marginal doctrine among evangelicals, the false dispensationalist theology of Christian Zionism has greatly escalated, ironically falsely with the help of jess, Messianic Jews, Judaizers and many others too. The reality still is that the parable of the vineyard (Matt 21:33-43) clearly shows that the Christian Church totally now rather succumbs all of the past promises made to Israel. Be careful about accepting anyone’s word about Christian Zionism do first read the Bible, New Testament for yourself and know the truth rather. http://witnessed.wordpress.com/2008/07/29/the-2-promised-returns/

” Those who question the legitimacy of Israel’s actions are immediately labelled anti-Semitic by some quarters, effectively undermining the turn of phrase by using it in this context. We are right to question the state of Israel’s actions and I am not anti-Semitic for doing so. I think the religious fundamentalism exhibited by certain Zionist and Orthodox Jewish groups needs to be dealt with in a similar manner to Islamic fundamentalism, I don’t see the distinction between the two, both are equally repulsive. ” http://mccainvrsobama.wordpress.com/2010/09/23/even-as-to-the-promised-land/

Often we hear Zionists claim to the promised land if Israel today and supposedly justified from the Bible, based on isolated verses  or those in the Old Testament, not many frOm the New Testament for sure.. Any honest persons reading the Bible should admit that it was not the gentiles, But God himself had on two occasions in history now removed the Jews from the land of Israel,  and like most of the other nations of world  Israel now too Israel itself is not perfect and does not fully follow after God as it firstly has been commanded to do so too. They also should read their own Bible as to the reasons they were dispelled the first time.. 
 
Jer 34:8 [This is] the word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord after King Zedekiah had made a covenant with all the people who were at Jerusalem to proclaim liberty to them:
Jer 34:9
Every man should let his Hebrew slaves, male and female, go free, so that no one should make a slave of a Jew, his brother.
Jer 34:10
And all the princes and all the people obeyed, who had entered into the covenant that everyone would let his manservant and his maidservant go free, so that none should make bondmen of them any more; they obeyed, and let them go.
Jer 34:11
But afterward they turned around and caused the servants and the handmaids whom they had let go free to return [to their former masters] and brought them into subjection for servants and for handmaids.
Jer 34:12
Therefore the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying,
Jer 34:13
Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel: I made a covenant with your fathers in the day that I brought them forth out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage, saying,
Jer 34:14
At the end of seven years you shall let every man his brother who is a Hebrew go free who has sold himself {or} has been sold to you and has served you six years; but your fathers did not listen to {and} obey Me or incline their ear [submitting and consenting to Me].
Jer 34:15
And you recently turned around {and} repented, doing what was right in My sight by proclaiming liberty each one to his neighbor [who was his bond servant]; and you made a covenant {or} pledge before Me in the house which is called by My Name.
Jer 34:16
But then you turned around and defiled My name; each of you caused to return to you your servants, male and female, whom you had set free as they might desire; and you brought them into subjection again to be your slaves.
Jer 34:17
Therefore thus says the Lord: You have not listened to Me {and} obeyed Me in proclaiming liberty each one to his brother and neighbor. Behold, I proclaim to you liberty–to the sword, to pestilence, and to famine, says the Lord; and I will make you to be tossed to and fro {and} to be a horror among all the kingdoms of the earth!
Jer 34:18
And the men who have transgressed My covenant, who have not kept the terms of the covenant {or} solemn pledge which they had made before Me, I will make them [like] the [sacrificial] calf which they cut in two and then passed between its separated parts [solemnizing their pledge to Me]–I will make those men the calf!
Jer 34:19
The princes of Judah, the princes of Jerusalem, the eunuchs, the priests, and all the people of the land who passed between the parts of the calf,
Jer 34:20
I will give them into the hands of their enemies and into the hands of those who seek their life. And their dead bodies will be food for the birds of the heavens and the beasts of the earth.
Jer 34:21
And Zedekiah king of Judah and his princes will I give into the hands of their enemies and into the hands of those who seek their life, and into the hand of the king of Babylon’s army which has withdrawn from you.
Jer 34:22 Behold, I will command, says the Lord, and cause them [the Chaldeans] to return to this city; and they shall fight against it and take it and burn it with fire. I will make the cities of Judah a desolation without inhabitant. 
  
Jer 35:13 Thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel: Go and say to the men of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, Will you not receive instruction and listen to My words {and} obey them? says the Lord.
Jer 35:14
The command which Jonadab son of Rechab gave to his sons not to drink wine, has been carried out {and} established [as a custom for more than two hundred years]. To this day they drink no wine, but they have obeyed their father’s command. But I, even I, have persistently spoken to you, but you have not listened to {and} obeyed Me.

Jer 35:15
I have sent also to you all My servants the prophets earnestly {and} persistently, saying, Return now every man from his evil way and amend your doings and go not after other gods to serve them; and then you shall dwell in the land which I have given to you and to your fathers. But you did not submit {and} consent to Me or listen to {and} obey Me.

Jer 35:16 Since the sons of Jonadab son of Rechab have fulfilled {and} established the command of their father which he commanded them, but these people have not listened to and obeyed Me,
Jer 35:17
Therefore thus says the Lord God of hosts, the God of Israel: Behold, I am bringing upon Judah and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem all the evil that I have pronounced against them, because I have spoken to them, but they have not listened, and I have called to them, but they have not answered.
 
In reality the first God promised restoration of the remnant of Israel had been met.. The aspiration of returning to their homeland was first held by Jews exiled to Babylon some 2,500 years ago – a hope which subsequently became the  reality. (”By the water of Babylon, there we sat down and wept when we remembered Zion.” Psalms 137:1).  And the full promised by God  restoration of the remnant of Israel and of the Gentile has been already priory fulfilled, the latter one fulfilled by God in Jesus Christ on Pentecost , in Jerusalem, as witnessed, as stated in the books of Acts before the 70 AD dispersion.. which most of the Jews wrongfully reject even till today  and next wanted to have their own Jewish only state.. The fact the full promsied return it had all had happened on Pentecost, a feast holiday to commemorate also the freeing of the slaves is very significant too. Pentecost is derived  one of the three Pilgrimage Festivals required in the Law of Moses. A Jewish holy day celebrated on the sixth of Sivan to celebrate Moses receiving the Ten Commandments and it also now commemorates the descent of the Holy Spirit upon the Apostles and other followers of Jesus as described in the Book of Acts,   ”According to the Pentateuchal legislation contained in Leviticus, a Jubilee year is the year that follows immediately seven successive Sabbatic years (the Sabbatic year being the seventh year of a seven-year cycle). Accordingly, the Jubilee year takes place at the end of seven times seven years, i.e. at the end of every forty-nine years, or the fiftieth.  Hence, the institution of the Jubilee-year system is but an extension or the working out of the Sabbatic-year legislation, viz. that as at the end of every six years there succeeds a Sabbatic year, so at the end of each seven Sabbatic years there succeeds a Jubilee year. Arguing from the analogous Pentecostal system, it is evident that the actual year in which the Jubilee occurs is not the last of the seventh Sabbatic cycle (i.e. the forty-ninth year), but the year following, namely, the fiftieth. Hence, at the end of each forty-eight years there occur two consecutive fallow years, viz. the forty-ninth, or the Sabbatic year of the seventh Sabbatic cycle and the fiftieth, or the Jubilee year.” http://www.piney.com/Jubilee.html  

In Acts 15:14-18, James confirms, interprets the prophecy of Amos 9 that describes the rebuilding of David’s tabernacle as finding its fulfillment in the calling out of Gentiles and the progressive formation of the Christian Church 

 Even in Revelation 2:17, John (quoting Jesus) promises to overcomers (i.e., the Church) a “new name” that “no one knows except the one who receives it.” This is a clear reference to the prophecy in Isa. 62:2 (“And the nations will see your righteousness, and all kings your glory; and you will be called by a new name, which the mouth of the Lord will designate”) and 65:15 (“but My servants will be called by another name”) about Israel’s future kingly status and restoration to Yahweh, both of which are now applied to individuals within the church.

..the New Testament fiurthermore provides us all with an expanded definition of what constitutes an “Israelite” or a “Jew”. Or perhaps we might say that the NT provides us with a “Christified” perspective on the people of God. Ethnicity is no longer the primary concern. Having Abraham’s blood in one’s veins is not the primary consideration, but rather having Abraham’s faith in one’s heart. Jesus is the true “seed” of Abraham to whom the promise was given. But if anyone is “in Christ” by faith, he or she is the “seed” of Abraham and thus an heir according to the promise.

Revelation 3:9 is especially instructive. Here Jesus promises the Church in Philadelphia that he “will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie – behold, I will make them come and bow down before your feet and they will learn that I have loved you.” There are two important points to make.First, he refers to people who “say they are Jews and are not, but lie” (for an almost identical statement, see Rev. 2:9). Clearly, in one sense, these people are Jews, the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, who met regularly in the synagogue to worship. Yet, in another sense, i.e., inwardly and spiritually, they are not Jews, having rejected Jesus and now persecuted and slandered his people. Indeed, their gatherings at synagogue are energized by Satan himself. 

But if they are false Jews, who, then, are the true Jews? If they are a synagogue of Satan, who, then, constitutes a synagogue of God? John does not provide an explicit answer, but the implication seems clear. Ladd explains: “true Jews are the people of the Messiah.

Apostle Paul says the same thing very clearly: ‘For he is not a real Jew who is one outwardly, nor is true circumcision something external and physical. He is a Jew who is one inwardly, and real circumcision is a matter of the heart, spiritual and not literal’ (Rom. 2:28-29). That this ‘Judaism of the heart’ is not to be limited to believing Jews but includes believing gentiles is clear from Paul’s words to the Philippians: ‘For we are the true circumcision, who worship God in spirit, and glory in Christ Jesus’ (Phil. 3:3). We must conclude, then, that John makes a real distinction between literal Israel – the Jews – and spiritual Israel – the church” (43-44).  

Revelation 7:15 speaks of the saints in God’s heavenly “temple” and of God “spreading his tabernacle over them.” This is a clear allusion to Ezek. 37:26-28, a passage that in its OT context is a prophecy of Israel’s restoration. There God says, “I will establish my sanctuary in the midst of them forever. And my tabernacle will be over them . . . when my sanctuary is in the midst of them forever.“  God will wipe away every tear from their eyes” (Isa. 25:8; Rev. 7:17).

Once again some Jewish  persons are waiting for  a promised return here but they are greatly mistaken, for this return is the promised return to Jesus Christ the messiah, and it includes the Church, composed of Jews and gentiles now. This promised restoration of the remnant of Israel, and of the gentile has been fulfilled by God in Jesus Christ ..   

(Rev 3:12 KJV)  Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

(Rev 21:2 KJV)  And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

(Rev 21:10 KJV)  And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

As per the next full supposed re-gathering  of the twelve tribes of Israel note this had occurred in Pentecost, in the book of Acts where all of the tribes of Israel were represented, present thus.  (Acts 2:2 KJV)  And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

(Acts 2:36 KJV)  Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

(Acts 16:31 KJV)  And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

(Acts 16:32 KJV)  And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

(Acts 20:20 KJV)  And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have showed you, and have taught you publicly, and from house to house,

But most Jews who tend to reject Jesus Christ as their Messiah, and evangelicals too, tend not to agree with this and they are waiting for rather a supposedly soley Jewish messiah, not a Jewish -gentile messiah of Jesus Christ, so next they will be deceived and disappointed by the false counterfeit messiah, the anti Christ,  (Rev 13:18 KJV)  Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

and the same anti Christ who falsely will restore the rebuilding of the temple in Jerusalem, restore the sacrifices in the temple,

(Rev 14:9 KJV)  And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

(Rev 14:10 KJV)  The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

(Rev 14:11 KJV)  And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

There are numerous passages in the NT where OT prophecies concerning Israel’s regathering and restoration are applied to the Church, indicating that the latter is the “true Israel” comprised of both believing Jews and believing Gentiles in whom the promises will be fulfilled. Or, to put it in other terms, the Church does not replace Israel but takes up and perpetuates in itself the believing remnant within the nation as a whole.
 

The “true Israel” of God, which in the OT was comprised of all ethnic Jews who were circumcised in heart, finds its NT expression in the Church, now comprised of all believing ethnic Jews and all believing ethnic Gentiles. Or, to use Paul’s imagery from Romans 11, the one Olive Tree = True Israel = the Church in which are both natural (Jewish) branches and unnatural (Gentile) branches, but in all cases “believing branches 

Jesus taught that his resurrection was the raising of the True Temple of Israel. He has replaced the priesthood, sacrifices, and sanctuary of Israel by fulfilling them in his own glorious priestly ministry and by offering, once and for all, his sacrifice for the world, that is, for both Jew and Gentile. Believers from all nations are now being built up through him into this Third Temple, the church that Jesus promised to build.

Simon Peter spoke of the Second Coming of the Lord Jesus in conjunction with the final judgment and the punishment of sinners. Instructively, this same Simon Peter, the Apostle to the Circumcision, says nothing about the restoration of the kingdom to Israel in the land of Palestine. Instead, as his readers contemplate the promise of Jesus’ Second Coming, he fixes their hope upon the new heavens and the new earth, in which righteousness dwells.

The entitlement of any one ethnic or religious group to territory in the Middle East called the “Holy Land” cannot be supported by the new testament or Old tesatment Scriptures. In fact, the land promises specific to Israel in the Old Testament were fulfilled under Joshua. The New Testament speaks clearly and prophetically about the destruction of the second temple in A.D. 70. No New Testament writer foresees a regathering of ethnic Israel in the land, as did the prophets of the Old Testament after the destruction of the first temple in 586 B.C. Moreover, the land promises of the Old Covenant are consistently and deliberately expanded in the New Testament to show the universal dominion of Jesus, who reigns from heaven upon the throne of David, inviting all the nations through the Gospel of Grace to partake of his universal and everlasting dominion. 

and why were the Jews dispelled from Israel the second Time? Because also due  their false hope of having a Jewish state separate of Jesus Christ.
 
 God has promised to restore His Jewish people to Israel – Jer 29:14 and this promised has been fulfilled after the Babylonian exile and return now too.
Yet some evangelicals, Zionists falsely believe there are here, were simultaneous prophecies of a latter day restoration of Israel solely, alone… fullfilled in 1948
a. To be fulfilled in the last days, supposedly our modern  times, just before the Lord Jesus Christ finally returns
b. That includes the return of Jews to Palestine and the establishment of  Israel as an independent state in May, 1948, was a fulfillment of  such prophecies.
Yes next the Jewish people again as warned by God, and prophesied by Jesus, predicted too were dispersed worldwide by the Romans and God himself.

At the heart of many of the political commitments in question are two fatally flawed propositions. First, some are teaching that God’s alleged favor toward Israel today is based upon ethnic descent rather than upon the grace of Christ alone, as proclaimed in the Gospel. Second, others are teaching that the Bible’s promises concerning the land are fulfilled in a special political region or “Holy Land,” perpetually set apart by God for one ethnic group alone. As a result of these false claims, large segments of the evangelical community, our fellow citizens, and our government are being misled with regard to the Bible’s teachings regarding the people of God, the land of Israel, and the impartiality of the Gospel.

God, the Creator of all mankind, is merciful and takes no pleasure in punishing sinners. Yet God is also holy and just and must punish sin. Therefore, to satisfy both his justice and his mercy, God has appointed one way of salvation for all, whether Jew or Gentile, in Jesus Christ alone.  Jesus Christ, who is fully God and fully man, came into the world to save sinners. In his death upon the cross, Jesus was the Lamb of God taking away the sin of the world, of Jew and of Gentile alike. The death of Jesus forever fulfilled and eternally ended the sacrifices of the Jewish temple. All who would worship God, whether Jew or Gentile, must now come to him in spirit and truth through Jesus Christ alone. The worship of God is no longer identified with any specific earthly sanctuary. He receives worship only through Jesus Christ, the eternal and heavenly Temple.

To as many as receive and rest upon Christ alone through faith alone, to Jews and Gentiles alike, God gives eternal life in his heavenly inheritance. 

Bad Christian theology regarding the “Holy Land” contributed to the tragic cruelty of the Crusades in the Middle Ages. Lamentably, bad Christian theology is today attributing to secular Israel a divine mandate to conquer and hold Palestine, with the consequence that the Palestinian people are marginalized and regarded as virtual “Canaanites.” This doctrine is both contrary to the teaching of the New Testament and a violation of the Gospel mandate. In addition, this theology puts those Christians who are urging the violent seizure and occupation of Palestinian land in moral jeopardy of their own bloodguiltiness. Are we as Christians not called to pray for and work for peace, warning both parties to this conflict that those who live by the sword will die by the sword? Only the Gospel of Jesus Christ can bring both temporal reconciliation and the hope of an eternal and heavenly inheritance to the Israeli and the Palestinian. Only through Jesus Christ can anyone know peace on earth.

The present secular state of Israel, however, is not an authentic or prophetic realization of the Messianic kingdom of Jesus Christ. Furthermore, a day should not be anticipated in which Christ’s kingdom will manifest Jewish distinctives, whether by its location in “the land,” by its constituency, or by its ceremonial institutions and practices. Instead, this present age will come to a climactic conclusion with the arrival of the final, eternal phase of the kingdom of the Messiah. At that time, all eyes, even of those who pierced him, will see the King in his glory. Every knee will bow, and every tongue will declare that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. The kingdoms of this world will become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign forever and ever. http://www.bible-researcher.com/openletter.html 

I must point our that the same false dispensationalists, Zionists who reject these truths in the Bible are the same persons who today tend to deny the Holy Spirit, they reject that God’s gifted men and Holy spirit gifts exist today because they are not spirit filled, led by the Holy Spirit in reality.  

http://www.ccel.org/contrib/exec_outlines/end/end_07.htm

“You are not to go to the left or to the right unless you hear a voice ( of the Holy Sprit) saying this is the way walk there in”.. Many of us have not learned as to how to hear this voice .

 

Background

“Zionism is a Modern  international political movement that originally supported the reestablishment of a homeland for the Jewish People in Palestine (Hebrew: Eretz Yisra’el, “the Land of Israel”), and continues primarily as support for the modern state of Israel.[1] Although its origins are earlier, the movement was formally established by the Austro-Hungarian journalist Theodor Herzl in the late 19th century.   Zionism is based in part upon religious tradition linking the Jewish people to the Land of Israel, where the concept of Jewish nationhood first evolved somewhere between 1200 BCE and the late Second Temple era (i.e. up to 70 CE),[4][5]  Zionism can be distinguished from Territorialism, a Jewish nationalist movement calling for a Jewish homeland not necessarily in Palestine. During the early history of Zionism, a number of proposals were made for settling Jews outside of Europe, but ultimately all of these were rejected or failed. The debate over these proposals helped to define the nature and focus of the Zionist movement. Since the first century CE most Jews have lived in exile, although there has been a constant presence of Jews in the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel). According to Judaism, Eretz Israel, or Zion, is a land promised to the Jews by God according to the Bible. Following the 2nd century Bar Kokhba revolt, Jews were expelled from Palestine to form the Jewish diaspora. In the nineteenth century a current in Judaism supporting a return grew in popularity. Even before 1897, which is generally seen as the year in which practical Zionism started, Jews immigrated to Palestine, the pre-Zionist Aliyah.[10] Jewish immigration to Palestine started in earnest in 1882. The so-called First Aliyah saw the arrival of about 30,000 Jews over twenty years. Most immigrants came from Russia, where anti-semitism was rampant. They founded a number of agricultural settlements with financial support from Jewish philanthropists in Western Europe. The Second Aliyah started in 1904. Further Aliyahs followed between the two World Wars, fueled in the 1930s by Nazi persecution.  In the 1890s Theodor Herzl infused Zionism with a new and practical urgency. He brought the World Zionist Organization into being and, together with Nathan Birnbaum, planned its First Congress at Basel in 1897.[13] This current in Zionism is known as political Zionism because it aimed at reaching a political agreement with the Power ruling Palestine. Up to 1917 this was the Ottoman Empire, and then until 1948 it was Britain on behalf of the League of Nations. The WZO also supported small scale settlement in Palestine.  Lobbying by Chaim Weizmann (cultural Zionists) and others culminated in the Balfour Declaration of 1917 by the British government. This declaration endorsed the creation of a Jewish Homeland in Palestine. In 1922, the League of nations endorsed the declaration in the Mandate it gave to Britain:  Palestinian Arabs resisted Zionist migration. There were riots in 1920, 1921 and 1929, sometimes accompanied by massacres of Jews. Britain supported Jewish immigration in principle, but in reaction to Arab violence imposed restrictions on Jewish immigration. The subsequent growth in Jewish migration led to the 1936-1939 Arab revolt in Palestine which in turn led the British to establish the Peel Commission to investigate the situation. The commission (which did not examine the situation of Jews in Europe) called for a two-state solution and compulsory transfer of populations. This solution was rejected by the British and instead the White Paper of 1939 proposed an end to Jewish immigration by 1944, with a further 75,000 to be admitted by then. In principle, the British stuck to this policy until the end of the Mandate. After WWII and the Holocaust, support for Zionism increased, especially among Jewish Holocaust survivors. The British were attacked in Palestine by Zionist groups because of their restrictions on Jewish immigration, the best known attack being the 1946 King David Hotel bombing. Unable to resolve the conflict, the British referred the issue to the newly created United Nations.  In 1947, the UNSCOP recommended the partition of western Palestine into a Jewish state, an Arab state and a UN-controlled territory (Corpus separatum) around Jerusalem.[15] This partition plan was adopted on November 29th, 1947 with UN GA Resolution 181, 33 votes in favor, 13 against, and 10 abstentions. The vote itself, which required a two-third majority, was a very dramatic affair and led to celebrations in the streets of Jewish cities.[16]  The Arab states rejected the UN decision, demanding a single state with an Arab majority. violence immediately exploded in Palestine between Jews and Arabs. On 14 May 1948, at the end of the British mandate, the Jewish Agency, led by Ben-Gurion declared the creation of the State of Israel and the same day, the armies of four[17] Arab countries invaded Israel. During the following eight months, Israel forces defended the Jewish partition and conquered portions of the Arab partition, enlarging its portion to 78 percent of mandatory Palestine. The conflict led to an exodus of about 711,000 Arab Palestinians [18], of whom about 46.000 were internally displaced persons in Israel. The war ended with the 1949 Armistice Agreements, which included new cease-fire lines, the so-called Green line.  After the war the Arabs continued to reject Israel’s right to exist and demanded that it retreat to the 1947 partition lines. They sustained this demand until 1967 when the rest of western Palestine was conquered by Israel during the Six-Day War, after which Arab states demanded that Israel retreat to the 1949 cease fire line, the only “borders” currently recognized by the international community. These borders are commonly referred as the “pre-1967 borders” or the “green line”. The border with Egypt was legalized in the 1979 Egyptian-Israeli Peace Treaty, and the border with Jordan in the 1994 Israel-Jordan Treaty of Peace. After the creation of the State of Israel the WZO continued to exist as an organisation dedicated to assisting and encouraging Jews to migrate to Israel, as well as providing political support for Israel.  In addition to Jewish Zionism, there was always a small number of Christian Zionists that existed from the early days of the Zionist movement.”   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism 
“Over 400 years of independence under the Davidic dynasty ended in 586 BCE when the country was conquered by the Babylonians, who destroyed the Temple and exiled most of the people. However, before the century was over the Jews returned, rebuilt the Temple and restored Jewish life in the Land. For the next centuries, they knew varying degrees of self-rule under Persian (538-333 BCE) and Hellenistic (322-142 BCE) overlordship, independence under the Hasmonean dynasty (142-63 BCE) and then increasingly oppressive domination by the Romans beginning in 63 BCE. When the Jews were prevented from carrying out their traditional religious way of life, they launched a series of uprisings, which climaxed in the revolt of 66 CE.   After four years of fighting, Rome put down the Jewish Revolt and burned the Temple to the ground. Many thousands of Jews were killed, sold into slavery and dispersed to countries near and far. The only remnant of the entire Temple compound was the Western Wall, which became a place of pilgrimage and worship for Jews, and remains so to the present time.  In 132 CE, another Jewish revolt, which restored Jewish sovereignty for three years, was cruelly suppressed, claiming thousands of lives. To stamp out the Jewish connection to the Land of Israel, the Romans renamed the country Palaestina.  The small Jewish community which remained in the Land gradually recovered. Institutional and communal life was reconstructed to meet the new situation without the unifying framework of the state and the Temple. Priests were replaced by rabbis, and in the absence of a central place of worship, the synagogue became the nucleus of each of the scattered communities. Between 636 and 1096, the Jewish community in the Land diminished considerable and lost some of its organizational and religious cohesiveness, ” http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Facts+About+Israel/State/ZIONISM-+Background.htm
 
God leads us in many ways, through his word, through people, but God will confirm his will for us still too. I have had often had to learn spiritual truths the hard way, by trying to do my own thing and failing at it, and Jesus reminding me that I could do nothing without him. Now I pray before I do anything and I await his instructions, if God does not lead me, or tells me not to do something, I tend not to do it. I had bought a pair summer shorts recently and I wanted to get matching T-shirt to it too.. I had tried a few stores but was unable to get the matching color that I had wanted. So I prayed about it and God told me not to look for it. I have learned he will deal with it his way and in his time. So I went along with my normal agendas. I had to go the drug store to get my medicine renewed so I did so. I was surprised to find the matching T-shirt, in the color I had wanted on sale at half price too in the drug store. After I pray I have come to learn to expect God will answer the prayer, I do not have to do it in my own strength.
 
It also now seems that unresolved problems tend to make us seek God. How to draw closer to God. You have wanted God to speak to you for a long time. You have wanted to talk to God and get answers back. This  is an opportunity for you to have a dialogue with God. God too wants to communicate with you. You might have been in church, a crusade, in your room, or outside under the stars. You felt God’s call, but you didn’t know exactly what God wanted you to do. You knew you were going to do something special, but you didn’t know what it was. Now you can also find out God’s plan for you, and others too and the literature is all free too.   It teaches you how to hear God’s voice.  God will teach you many things you need to know.  Valid spiritual tools to help you make conscious contact with God: Praise, Prayer, Humbleness, Obedience, the Bible. Get yourself ready where God speaks to you 

God is these days speaking to us not just through the words in the Bible. Many of us have at times sensed that something is wrong in the church  and  because of the continual deficiencies in our knowledge of scripture, deficiencies in our walk with God, deficiencies in our being able to hear the voice of God, and the fear of man we have suppressed or put aside these things, yet in our hearts these nudges of the Holy Spirit keep coming back time and again. So we have at times felt things, we have at times sensed things, but we have not necessarily known that now God has been speaking and guiding us. When we   have sought help from a preacher or teacher we too often next have in time realized in some measure that what they tend speak not from a personal knowledge of God, from the leading of God  but instead speak from the stale corn of other people books, tapes, and notes or their own views. And yet with these sweeping -general explanations these things we have known never really go away — for the Holy Spirit still speaks to men and what we  have already seen and heard of Him we do still believe  God still speaks to men, and confers upon those that love Him and are obedient His tokens of His affection — true gifts and true ministry. Next that  Word becoming flesh (in us), a personal reality in many of our life experience, that can be “seen” and “handled” by those some of those called out persons that are around us.

Do see  http://pbulow.tripod.com/wait.html     and http://pbulow.tripod.com/voice.html
http://www.alaskandreams.net/ekklesia/Meditating%20on%20the%20Lord.htm
http://www.alaskandreams.net/ekklesia/articles.htm

http://postedat.wordpress.com/2008/06/22/as-to-what-is-a-christian/

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May 23, 2008

Bell, BCE, Sympatico

 
 
You can get out of the Sympatcio Internet contract by cancelling your land line phone service? Or by telling the truth about Bell on the net. http://thenonconformer.tripod.com/index.html
 
  
http://thenonconformer.wordpress.com/2009/06/14/buyer-beware-beware/
 
Bell Sympatico complaints
 
Beware always of men and women, bullies, tormentors, control freaks,  persons, civil and public servants,  politicians, pastors, leaders, elders, Corporations who falsely do, will try to enslave you, oppress you, exploit you even while they claim they are proclaiming the truth, democracy, trying to help you, etc.,
 
Is 51:23 ..your tormentors {and} oppressors, those who said to you, Bow down, that we may ride {or} tread over you; and you have made your back like the ground and like the street for them to pass over.
Bell, BCE shares plunge 12% after court ruling still needs to see how it’s customers do see Bell too…
 
Why is it that even so many managers and their subordinates too  falsely believe they will not reap what they sow now, the bad things they do included?
 
Bell is well over its glory days, and comparing to other operators around the world, it is a mediocre buy at that price. they have been caught sleeping at the wheel too often and not being fair to its customers too often too. They should do their homework first, build on solid ‘sound’ principles first and then see if somebody is willing to put money into it. For now it is simply a purchase of a skeleton out of tune with the industry and a history of burning up good Canadian talent at the expense of the shareholders, and at contempt for the bona fide user. Bell go back to your core business and do a good job and then its time will come. I am glad I own no teachers fund equity.”
 
“I see Bell Canada as an out-of-date behemoth. I recently paid my last ever bill to Bell Canada something I vowed to do in 1999 after realizing just how bad my Bell Canada abuse their land line customers. Recently, at long last, my internet provide, a cable co. began to offer phone over cable in my area. ‘
 
Bell have two very odd charges that add up to a lot of money. And at that, they are of course taxed making it worse:1) Network Access Fee. What is this? Why do we have to pay a fee to access the service that is offered as the landline. This is simply a naked cash grab.2) Touch Tone fee of $2.80. Bell Canada’s switches have been “modernized” for over 20 years where the switch circuit can equally take pulse (rotary dial) and tone dialing. Whether you operate a touchtone phone or a rotary dial, it makes absolutely no cost difference to Bell Canada. However, where about 13 M Canadian lines are paying touch-tone service, this amounts to a naked cash grab of $500M per year for Bell Canada.My Bell Canada landline was $28.69 with Bell Canada.
My Videotron cable phone is $16.95 for identical level of service.That works out to a hair under $160/year with taxes.  
 
Over 2M Canadians now have cable based phone. Most of those were former Bell Canada customers.

I will not miss Bell Canada at all. The Ontario Teachers’ Pension Fund should look very carefully at what it is that they are buying.”
 
http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2008/05/22/bce.html?ref=rss#articlecomments
  
Undeniably  a lot of people hate do Bell, many past dissatisfied customers who also do undeniably also vent their anger at the government’s, CRTC past poor inactions here too.
  
These comments above by others even do confirm what I have openly said before too that Bell has not only abused their past land line customers, and their internet customers because Bell still has much too many unacceptable poor executives, managers who do falsely abuse their customers, and Bell does try to make any false cash grabs from the customers, or rather plain  old fashion thefts from the customers, that they can and much too often? I have also clearly said before too that Bell cannot be trusted. Bell  needs to be fully regulated. And I have also rightly said someone should tell the Ontario school teachers’ what a bad deal  buying Bell is and that is now being done too.
  
BCE now looking to the Supreme Court for help instead of looking at itself, it’s poor mangers  is another absurdity or Bell threatening to sue me, cutting of my Sympatico internet  for telling the truth about Bell to others too is another unacceptable absurdity now too!!
 
Bell has only itself to blame for all of this, not anyone else, especially not the users, customers.
 
Just a reminder. There are many basic reasons for a Corporation’s downfall. Besides having selected bad, over paid or underpaid executives, managers, employees firstly there is the management style itself., which can include  theft and/or abusing the customers too, over pricing too. Now I am not alone, just one of many in these observations too. A firms starts to abuse the customers. so it’s sales volume and profitability reduces, so to compensate they often do a false survey, generally false cause they have no intention of facing up to their own negative contributions, basic truths, and/or  the blame it on others, unions, interest rates, banks, courts even.. sound recently familiar? So what do they generally do, well they tighter their belts, get rid of some of the employees, the fish begins to rots from the head, but they tend to cut of the tail first, and it still really does not help. So the bad Corporation managers they  tighten the belt some more, they now offer less services to the customers, and increase the pricing too? Sound familiar? Look at how Bell Sympatico had responded to their competitors, their internet services this year and the significant negative feedback, reaction they got too from their customers. The fact that Bell Sympatico, and Rogers too now in the last year have been the most hated, the most negatively discussed topic, corporations on Canada’s internet is undeniable too. Just also look at Bell’s higher pricing over the competition, and it now still also explains why Bell is at war also with it’s competitors and not just the customers too, and why Bell has undeniably so many dissatisfied customers now too. So the Corporations common solution of jacking up the prices, cutting back on the customer services of course predictably next it even leads to a more dramatic economic loss, loss of their customers,  and do you really think they amongst many others executive managers would learn from any of this? Management still had to cut off it’s own head, the bad exemplary  executive managers? The Corporation next had kept on   on tightening the belt so much that they next choked themselves to death, have come to an irreversible place. All simple too. I have seen the same thing been done by computer resellers, and also by large grocery corporations, such as Super C, Provigo, some managers still never do learn from their mistakes and the whole firm  suffers for it, especially next the shareholders.
  
Bell Sympatico next as per the last letter to me, contrary to my rightful objection is falsely going to disconnect my internet services with them as of May 31, 2008 to try to shut me up, they are going to breach my contract with me, and Jim Prentice, Consumer Affairs,  did, do not help in these matters to date. I got a useless reply from the federal consumer’s office too before , even from  Dussault.Madeleine@cb-bc.gc.ca,  like I had said  they  did  not do much good in these matters too to date. How many more citizens will have to wrongfully suffer because of the detail, witnessed  Bell’s immoral management before the federal consumer affairs department and CRTC deals with it all adequately and fully now too?
http://thenonconformer.wordpress.com/2008/06/13/are-you-having-problems-with-your-isp-too/
 
Capping: The Criminal Code of Canada’s section 184.2.c.i-ii DOES NOT warrant them to do packet sniffing. It allows them to ONLY ‘sample’ traffic for quality reasons. You need to remember that these rules were drafted to stop people making their own wire taps on phone technology. What the statement is saying is that: If I am a phone tech I am allowed to connect to the line to check for hums/crackels/dead-service and then do my job to fix it. With Internet traffic you may not capture a person’s traffic unless a court order is issued to do so. The subject of traffic shaping is very different…They are looking into packet headers and making changes that are not a privacy issue…
 “If you were half as good at running a company as you were at lobbying, maybe you’d have a better network,”  Quebecor executive vice-president Luc Lavoie who took a shot at the quality of Bell Canada’s cellphone service: . http://news.aol.ca/article/telecom-summit/258999/
   
 The future is wireless, some would say  and the  past way they have mismanaged their past land line, ISP services too,  clearly indicates they will do it also next with the wireless services too at the users, customers expenses…
  
Recent discussions by both Bell and Rogers on their Corporate need  to get more and more money, with even any excuse, still out of consumers, and to throttle the downloads,  only all clearly confirms the reality as to how poorly managed these same companies in reality are still.. They too now have been wrongfully over subsidized by the CRTC, the Canadian  federal governments now too… now it is rather time the citizens got the break, protection.
    
Reality- Dirty Dirty Bell Sympatico …the most abusive Corporation, firm I have dealt in Canada in my lifetime. Paul Kambulow
 
 Not acceptable, and Comments are not  needed  FOR THERE IS NO WAY TO DISPROVE THE TRUTH..

 

 

 

 

 
What you can do : Complain  for a start to CRTC »www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/welcome.htm ,
Competition Bureau »www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/epic···/en/Home ,        
News media
Local MP’s, PM’s of all provinces:
mpremier@gov.ab.ca
premier@gov.bc.ca
premier@leg.gov.mb.ca
Premier@gnb.ca
premier@gov.nl.ca
floyd_roland@gov.nt.ca
premier@gov.ns.ca
rwjghiz@gov.pe.ca
premier@gov.sk.ca
dennis.fentie@gov.yk.ca
compbureau@cb-bc.gc.ca
info@ccts-cprst.ca
infomgs@mgs.gov.on.ca
ccbbb@canadiancouncilbbb.ca
»https://www.premier.gov.on.ca/feedback/feedback.asp
»www.premier.gouv.qc.ca/premier-m···en.shtml
Honourable Jim Prentice CorrespondenceMinister@ic.gc.ca

 

   
>From: “Prime Minister/Premier ministre” <pm@pm.gc.ca>
Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 10:45 AM
To: “paul kambulow” 
Cc: “Jim Prentice, P.C., M.P.” <Minister.Industry@ic.gc.ca>
Subject:  Office of the Prime Minister / Cabinet du Premier ministre> Dear Mr. Kambulow:
>
> On behalf of the Right Honourable Stephen Harper, I would like to thank you for your e-mail, in which you raised an issue which falls within the portfolio of the Honourable Jim Prentice, Minister of Industry. The Prime Minister always appreciates receiving correspondence on subjects of importance to Canadians.
>
> Please be assured that the statements you made have been carefully reviewed. I have taken the liberty of forwarding your e-mail to Minister Prentice, so that he too may be made aware of your comments. I am certain that the Minister will give your views every consideration. For more information on the Government’s initiatives, you may wish to visit the Prime Minister’s Web site, at www.pm.gc.ca.
>
> L.A. Lavell
> Executive Correspondence Officer
> for the Prime Minister’s Office
       
Because even many managers in Canada, the government too  are not honest, do not tell the truth, they often also do lie as to the actual reasons their product prices are going up, and/or the quality of their services are going down, thus they are still helping to put themselves out of work, out of business eventually and to be rightfully dismissed too.
 
http://witnessed.wordpress.com/2008/07/29/this-next-was-so-predictable-even-by-me-too/
 
Clearly you cannot trust too often crooked Bell or the CRTC . Why is Bell allowed to control stuff that isn’t theirs?  ” However I do have a problem with wholesalers, customers not being able to use the full speed of a network. After all, they pay for the full speed when getting it from the phone companies. They should get the full speed.  ”  Bell’s known poor acts, actions deserve all kinds of vilification.  What a completely asinine company Bell is. I will never, ever deal with them again. Worst company I’ve ever encountered, what stupid business practices. ” Bell’s actions too often are still motivated by a desire to undermine competition  and increase their customer base seems too often as well to lose more customers.. “Bell and Rogers caused a lot of the problem themselves, with selling so called “unlimited” packages, only to find new applications use more bandwidth than they have available ot had deployed. “
 
“It is not just about the price too,   Bell can be real jerks to its customers. I used to be one until I got sick of their lack of customer service, etc., and even having 2 provides Bell and Rogers/local cable provider essentially in Ontario will NOT decrease prices. Look at the current cell-phone market as an indirect example of how low competition keeps prices high. ” ” and are they Bell and the others going to put unadvertised cap on how much we could download because basically the can to meet their advertised speeds due to their bolster, too often inadequate support structures, equipment too..” Bottom line is that when it comes to telecommunications and especially high speed internet, no one can be trusted, for  the fact is that ISP   – Cable, Telco etc – on their own will not invest in faster networks and bigger coverage areas because of the costs, and the main Corporate desire not to offer a service but a false desire  to make maximum profits with a minimum of capital investment. Services will evolve but at a slower pace until competitors are forced to invest in their own infrastrucuture.

Basically motivated by greed, increasing the profits. Bait and switch,  Misleading advertising, Unfair and Restrictive business trade practices seem to be a common thing in the Internet Service Providers  industry too, especially since generally the ISP are unregulated both by the Courts and the governments. It is a sad reality that even what is advertised is also next what the customer next consistently gets.

The Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission on Thursday issued a decision ordering Canada’s big phone companies, including Bell, Telus Corp., MTS Allstream Inc., SaskTel and Bell Aliant, to offer the same internet speeds to smaller wholesale customers as they themselves sell on a retail basis.” Service speed is an important competitive attribute, with rates differing significantly by speed and speed often being a major differentiation point from a marketing standpoint,” the CRTC ruled.

Under existing CRTC regulations, the big phone companies are required to rent out their networks to smaller service providers, who then sell internet access to their own customers. The rules boost the number of competitors selling internet access to the public, and thus keep prices down and service levels up. The regulations, however, have only applied to older infrastructure based in phone companies’ centralized office buildings.

Recently, phone companies have been pushing their networks out of those buildings by putting new equipment into streetside cabinets in an effort to boost their customers’ internet speeds. Smaller internet service providers haven’t had regulated access to those cabinets, however, which means they have been limited to selling slower speeds than those offered by the big phone companies.

In Quebec, for example, Bell has been selling internet connections with download speeds around 16 megabits per second while small ISPs have topped out at less than half that. The phone companies will only be required to offer faster speeds to wholesale ISPs when they sell them on a retail basis in a given area. Smaller ISPs will therefore have to request the faster connections from the phone companies. Bell, Telus and the others have 45 days to file with the CRTC the proposed rates they intend to charge the small ISPs for faster services. The rates will have to represent the actual cost of the service, plus “a reasonable mark-up,” the regulator said.

..the CRTC launched a larger inquiry into how much control large network owners such as Bell, Telus, Rogers Communications Inc. and Shaw Communications Inc., should have over the internet connections they sell to customers.” http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/12/12/tech-crtc.html
 
 “The CRTC has had a “cosy” relationship with Bell for as long as I can remember. It is obvious it continues. Short of replacing all the Commissioners with officials elected by net users this will never change. Time for a “revolution” IMO.” ” I really wonder who we have in charge of the CRTC. I would prefer a 13 year old nerd that has the slightest clue about the new hype of the Internet, ”
 
” Net neutrality is one of the most significant “sleeper” issues that will confront the people of Canada over the next decade. Just as we have demanded regulation for our road traffic and public utilities, we will demand fair access to our data services and even to each other. 
 
“Indeed, it is important not to lose sight of how much has changed in the past year. In the fall of 2007, net neutrality was viewed as a fringe issue in Canada without much political traction. In the span of 12 months, there has been a major CRTC case, the Angus bill, a rally on Parliament Hill, a more vocal business community supporting net neutrality and a gradual shift of this issue into the political mainstream. ”  http://www.thestar.com/sciencetech/article/542156  http://www.neutrality.ca/
  
  
 Here is what I know for sure in Canada proper policing, management ,  supervision  human rights commissions are a real fact of life, society, in schools, life,  in churches, governments, commerce, institutions, civil and public services, professional services too,  and elsewhere, even on the net,  for you will always have those 30 percent at least of the persons who will try to cheat, lie  , steal, bend the rules, falsely believe they are above the laws, Self  regulation alone is too often pretentious, farcical, often not applied as well. That applies especially to the professionals, civil and public services, police, municipalities, politicians, corporations now as well..
 
 Telecom dinosaurs are like the Big Three auto makers… act now to avoid more future tax funded bailouts.
 
 
Do continue here  below  to often read about bad Bell.. http://thenonconformer.wordpress.com/tag/bell/
 

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