Missing the point?

June 19, 2008

Exemplary

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Funny how some immoral persons, even if they call themselves Christians , have to resort to personal attacks on the writer, me, , when they cannot dispute the biblical truths, facts presented.. it is their own false alternative to avoid facing the truth about themselves firstly, the really big beam in their own eye.. and they are foolish enough to think I have to put up with it too.. if you lie to me, abuse me, I rightfully no longer talk to you for a start.. as simple as that… no matter who you think you are now, my mother, father, brother, sister, wife, my children , pastor, elder, etc..
Beware always of men and women, bullies, tormentors, control freaks,  persons, civil and public servants,  politicians, pastors, leaders, elders, who falsely do, will try to enslave you, oppress you, exploit you even while they claim they are proclaiming the truth, democracy, trying to help you, etc.,
 
Is 51:23 ..your tormentors {and} oppressors, those who said to you, Bow down, that we may ride {or} tread over you; and you have made your back like the ground and like the street for them to pass over.

 

NOW DUE TO MY POSTS I HAVE RECEIVED   BASHING EMAILS FROM MANY PASTORS NOW TOO IN THE LAST FEW YEARS. HEY I HAVE SEEN ALL KIND OF ABUSES IN THE GOVERNMENTS, CHURCHES, CIVIL AND PUBLIC SERVANTS,   BY THE POLICE, RCMP, ON THE NET, IN FAMILIES AS WELL THE LAST 4 DECADES TOO, but public exposure and prosecution of the abusers,   the really bad persons serves everyone’s best interest still too.
 
No! I rightfully do not accept personally any abuses quietly, and neither does God, especially not from any Pastor!
 
and I have often rightfully said how can I now expect the government leaders to be exemplary?  when the many evangelical pastors I have encountered to date were not, not even the evangelical ones..
  
(1 Tim 3:1 KJV)  This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop ( a ruling elder) , he desireth a good work. 2  A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3  Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; 4  One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 5  (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) 6  Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7  Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
 
(1 Tim 3:11 KJV)  Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
 
(Gen 6:9 KJV)  These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
 
(Rom 5:12 KJV)  Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (Rom 3:23 KJV)  For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
 
And why am I so rightfully hard on the evangelical pastors you say? Well firstly they should know more and even behave better than the rest, and not rather be more unacceptable religious hypocrites. I have mentioned recently how  one Pastor had lied on the net, he rewrote what I had posted to him.. and next did not post my subsequent responses to him too? Did that stop me, dream on, I just posted the truth on my own many popular sites for everyone to know what he did, is like too,   but at least the same pastor showed me how immorally he really was now too by what he did. Was I disappointed yet? Yes. Was I really surprised? No? ” For there still is nothing good in man! It is not just the lay persons who need to daily repent of their sins but all pastors now as well, preaching the gospel is never an acceptable alternative to living it too. I too would rightfully rather see a sermon first lived than one merely hypocritically preached to me. The Word of God is also like a two edged sword, it applies to the preacher as well as the one being preached to.
 
(1 Tim 5:24 KJV)  Some men’s sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after.
 
(1 Tim 5:25 KJV)  Likewise also the good works of some are manifest beforehand; and they that are otherwise cannot be hid.
 
(Prov 9:9 KJV)  Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning.
 
(Prov 20:7 KJV)  The just man walketh in his integrity: his children are blessed after him.
 
(Prov 24:16 KJV)  For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.
 
(Eccl 7:20 KJV)  For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.
 
(Mark 6:20 KJV)  For Herod feared John, knowing that he was a just man and an holy, and observed him; and when he heard him, he did many things, and heard him gladly.
 
(Acts 10:22 KJV)  And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.
 
(1 Tim 5:20 KJV)  Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
 
(1 Tim 5:21 KJV)  I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.
 
(1 Pet 5:1 KJV)  The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
 
(1 Pet 5:2 KJV)  Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
3 Neither as being lords over God’s heritage, but being ensamples to the flock. 4  And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.
 
(1 Pet 5:5 KJV)  Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another (Mutual submission), and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble. 6   Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:
 
(1 Pet 5:7 KJV)  Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.
 
(1 Pet 5:8 KJV)  Be sober ( Don’t get drunk now too) , be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: 9  Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
 
(1 Tim 5:22 KJV)  Lay hands suddenly on no man,
neither be partaker of other men’s sins: keep thyself pure.
  

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly (Not drunk) , righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

 
(Eph 5:18 KJV)  And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
(Eph 5:19 KJV)  Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
(Eph 5:20 KJV)  Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;
(Eph 5:21 KJV)  Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
(Eph 5:22 KJV)  Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
(Eph 5:23 KJV)  For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
(Eph 5:24 KJV)  Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
(Eph 5:25 KJV)  Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

religious abuse

Churches should be sanctuaries .. not prisons

Faith should be the ultimate freedom .. not the ultimate trap

And  why should I still  be so surprised that so many Chuuch Ministers too now are objectionably alcoholics and adulterers as well?

  Just cause 70 percent of pastors admitted to having done adultery  or counselling divorce, or 30 percent evangelicals commit   divorce does still not  mean any of them are getting away with any of it next too

as I have said many times before, even since the Garden of Eden, the devil still lies about the truth and he still says to you that you will not die if you disobey God’s law.. and he does that about lusts, stealing, alcohol, adultery, divorce or whatever.. to keep the people in bondage in their wrongful sins.. but Adam and Eve still paid a price for their sins next, so do we all..

(John 4:37 KJV) And herein is that saying true, One soweth, and another reapeth. (Gal 6:7 KJV) Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
 
 

 

 
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8 Comments »

  1. “the Spirit Watch http://www.spiritwatch.org/idrelab.htm

    How To Spot Religious Abuse by Rafael Martinez, Director, Spiritwatch Ministries

    As we have consistently asserted, there are indeed many fine, balanced and healthy Christian churches and associations where wholesome and uplifting spirituality serves as the foundation for their activity, ministry, and contribution to society as a whole, seeking to serve its needs for the sake of the Christian Gospel, and for the love of all men. Sadly, however, there have been some which have lost their balance and focus, becoming spiritually toxic places where many people and many communities were adversely and irreparably turned away from Christianity itself. Who would want to trust in a faith where God’s love was seemingly quite conditional, where hypocrisy and judgmentalism were quite visible, and where salvation came at a price of divided families, alienated neighbors, and self-righteous parishioners?

    This has become a serious thorn in the sides of the Christian church which no serious believer can ignore any longer, especially when such sinful excess has only served to alienate men from God. Yet the problem is made worse tenfold when the congregants of an abusive church seem, at first and even several glances, to be upright, sincere and responsible people to the casual observer who knows nothing of their group dynamics of control and abuse. How can you tell whether a church or other group is religiously abusive? Several subtle yet unmistakable warning signs can help you identify places of spiritual worship, vocation and social activity that are likely to be of questionable integrity. We now will endeavor to share these with you, yet a very careful qualification must be made here before we begin:

    It is essential to keep in mind one major principle when seeking to define the spiritual state of any given church: the occasional faults and weaknesses of spiritually sound, even spiritually struggling Christians in various situations can be easily mistaken for these danger signs. It is vitally important, therefore, to realize that seeing the failures of Christians in a given church you may be wondering about does NOT, repeat, NOT necessarily mean that their fellowship is unsound and religiously abusive. Mature judgement and careful examination, along with counsel received from other mature Christians from outside the given church. such as the pastors and pastoral staff of another church, must be deliberately pursued first before arriving at a conclusion. We at the TVBSA are not interested in initiating witch hunts nor scandalizing finger pointing at any church or church leader, and disavow any attempt to do so. However, we are attempting to share with you some sound guidelines that will help you arrive at informed, rational and fair choices and decisions regarding any group you may find that seem questionable.

    Bearing in mind the observations we have made concerning the “seven bars” of spiritual prisons, those also are observable characteristics of domination, manipulation and intimidation that former members have recognized “from the inside.” These guidelines which will enable you to spot religious abuse on the basis of these five warning signs which are – relatively speaking – the most easiest to identify by outsiders. Ron Enroth’s excellent book Churches That Abuse (Zondervan) has provided great insights into these warning signs, from which we will now share.

    The Five Warning Signs Of Religious Abuse

    1) Unchecked Authoritarian Leadership

    The first danger sign of a possibly unsound church, Enroth explains, can be seen through a high-handed exhibition of its leadership’s authority, which often appears unnervingly legitimate. “Spiritual abuse can take place in the context of doctrinally sound, Bible preaching, fundamental, conservative Christianity. All that is needed for abuse is a pastor accountable to no one and therefore beyond confrontation. .. Authoritarian leaders are ecclesiastical loners. That is, they do not function well or willingly in the context of systematic checks or balances. They are fiercely independent and refuse to be part of a structure of accountability. To put it crudely, they operate a one-man (or one-woman) spiritual show. And God help the person who gets in the way or makes waves.”

    He continues: “Yes, sometimes they will point to a board of elders or its equivalent, but more likely than not, this turns out to be a faithful inner circle of clones that implicitly accepts all that the leader sets forth. .. Abusive pastors often come from troubled backgrounds and are very insecure persons despite the ‘take charge’ image they may project. They are power hungry people who crave visibility. Leaders who inflict spiritual violence often hide behind the smoke screen of authority to gain power.” (pp. 203, 217, 219 of Churches That Abuse). It is important to understand that religiously abusive church leadership is most visible when it demands public and private attention to be given to the authority and control over the flock by the pastor. Often, in aberrant churches, this is not an easy thing to discern, and yet, it is frequently it is one of the danger signs that are too easily overlooked. Such leaders will seem too quick to chastise members, often in harsh forums of public rebuke.

    2) Imbalanced Congregational Life

    Secondly, the congregation’s social characteristics provide danger signals as well. Enroth points out that “membership of authoritarian churches is frequently comprised of young, spiritually immature Christians. This kind of church is successful because it is meeting basic human needs – the need to belong, the need to be affirmed, to be accepted and to be part of a family. It is not unusual for the leaders to assume the role of surrogate parents, especially for those young adults who come from dysfunctional family backgrounds” (p. 216). It is just this sort of yearning need and sincere zeal that the aberrant church pastor uses to exploit his flock through manipulative control. Mr. Enroth explains that abusive church leaders “foster an unhealthy form of dependency, spiritually and otherwise, by focusing on themes of submission and obedience to those in authority. They create the impression that people just aren’t going to find their way through life’s maze without a lot of firm directives from those at the top” (p. 217).

    These firm directives are fleshed out in a demanding lifestyle rigidity that is actually a form of controlling and abusive legalism. A black and white view of the world is the mentality that is created in the minds of the abusive church’s congregation. Do’s and don’ts found in church-supplied codes of conduct are taken so seriously that they have a stifling effect upon the spiritual liberty that Christians should enjoy and impose a dangerously controlling conformity upon the congregation. A major component of such control is the usage of unspoken expectations: moral directives that everyone in the group knows are “the law”, the way “things are”, but which are never explicitly spelled out until one haplessly breaks one of them. It is then that punishment or sanctions are imposed.

    3) Conscious Threats Of Discipline And Disfellowshipping

    “Another sign of impending trouble in a church is an obsession with discipline and excommunication. Beware of churches that warn of certain doom if you leave their ‘covering,’ or if you ‘break covenant.’ Once banished from the group, little compassion is shown the wayward one.” Again and again, it has been observed that former members of aberrant churches, when contemplating leaving the group, were issued dire warnings that they were backsliding, compromising and facing judgment from God. Church members who are seen as stepping out of line will find themselves being shunned or criticized by the so-called “true believers” in public, and will usually face much harsher treatment in the larger abusive church congregation. Demeaning public rebuke, even ridicule from the pulpit is one means of religious abuse disguised as “discipline.”

    But more often such power ploys are extended across the congregation or congregations in question through even subtler and indirect ways. As a means of preemptive control, the public teachings and private social life are regularly used to deliver indirect, yet unmistakable hints to potential “troublemakers” and the membership at large that one could never gain the same depth of spiritual truth anywhere else. Only among the group could true insights into life be found, the real interpretation of the Bible be discovered, the closest and deepest fellowship be experienced. With such carrots dangled on such long sticks for all to see, the reinforcement of the group’s exclusivism is accomplished, making the fear of exclusion from such a group so close to the “ultimate truth” an ultimate horror to be avoided at all costs.

    4) Deliberate Disruption Of Personal Relationships

    A fourth sign of aberrance in a church is when the church encourages complete isolation or strong distancing of it’s membership from family and friends not involved in the group. Enroth observes that even family relationships within the group become severely disrupted and strained, since the demands for attention to be given to the “spiritual family” become all important. Parental and marital bonds may be strained or shattered over the need for individual family members to more fully identified with the church group, and non-member relations outside of the group are often stunned at how cold and distant their once loving family members became when they “got religious.” The abusive church’s “spiritual family” then appear to become the recipients of the warm family ties and affections that group members have withdrawn from their own family.

    This is one of the most heartbreaking and shattering consequences of religious abuse dispensed by aberrant churches. We know of many, many people who have suffered unspeakably agonizing losses of their marriages, children and parents at the behest of abusive group leaders who deemed their members’ relationships with them far too spiritually polluting, smothering and destructive. A marriage of twenty years was abruptly ended by a divorce initiated by the pressures placed upon the couple by an abusive church through its leadership, simply because the husband left the Polk County “church” where both he and his wife were members. Such unbelievable occurrences are all too frequent and too real to ignore.

    5) Withdrawal And Isolation From The “Outside”

    Enroth goes on to say that another sign of abusive behavior in a church is it’s tendency towards isolation from other churches. There is a conscious effort to limit input and contact with thoughts and ideas from outside the church’s own circle. This is what is known as “information control” and is a crucial element of what is known as mind control. “Beware of the church, ” he writes, “where outside speakers are consistently denied access to the pulpit, and where other Christian churches are regularly denounced, belittled or ridiculed.” News events, local happenings, and even personal events are reinterpreted by the church leadership in such a way so as to lead the congregation to see the world as they wish it to be perceived. Bible verses are misquoted as divine sanction for these actions, citing the need to be separate from the doomed and satanic world order outside of the group’s domain.

    This contributes to the construction of a completely sealed society of people who effectively shut out the world from among them, even though they may continue to move within it. Newspapers, television programming, and even ordinary social interaction with other members of the larger culture become strongly discouraged. The issue goes way beyond a pious avoidance of tempting imagery and thought but actually is a means to stifle and control the thoughts, consciences and spiritual autonomy of the individual member. This marks the final terrifying descent of a group of zealous Christians under the leadership of manipulative leaders into a horrific deception and legalistic bondage, from which it is then almost virtually indistinguishable from outright cultism. Such groups do exist here, in the “Bible belt” and have wrought untold amounts of spiritual havoc in too many lives.

    Spiritual abuse is one of the dark secrets of the Tennessee Valley, a serious problem that for too long has remained overlooked, ignored, and neglected by much of the Body of Christ. Abuse in the name of the one true God who is the embodiment of love and grace is certainly one of the great tragedies of our time that have both broken His loving heart and aroused His wrath upon the false shepherds who have savaged his flock. The Gospel of Jesus Christ can never be served or proclaimed where fear, coercion, and outright spiritual trauma is inflicted. Only the cause of religious tyranny and megalomania is advanced. It is our prayerful hope that this brief overview can help you avoid such pitfalls.”

    More on relgious absuse
    http://www.spiritwatch.org/relabuse.htm

    Comment by thenonconformer — June 19, 2008 @ 4:25 pm

  2. Amazing how I tend to post the same response to the same related subjects on some of the sites that I tend to visit , next one site accepts the message and me, the other one hates me and the message.. so the type of response to me shows a lot about the responder.

    Comment by thenonconformer — June 21, 2008 @ 8:16 am

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